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Mid to Late Round RBs

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Speedy RB Jones to Make Up for Lost Time
Quote:

Taiwan Jones is preparing to do his best Chris Johnson impression. Johnson, of course, burst onto the scene - almost literally - in 2008 when he ran his 40-yard dash in a dizzying 4.24 seconds. Two months later, the Titans selected him with the 24th overall pick.

Jones, meanwhile, is viewed as the best approximation of Johnson in this year's draft class. The Eastern Washington tailback (by way of Deer Valley High in Antioch) did not run at the combine because he was still recovering from a broken foot suffered in early December. However, he will work out for teams April 14 in Pittsburg. The session promises to be well-attended by NFL types, including the 49ers.

CBS Sports draft analyst Rob Rang said he's spoken to teams that see Jones as a second-round pick. "He's the best open-field runner in this draft," Rang said. "I expect 4.3 (second) speed. His lateral quickness is pretty amazing. The question is durability. He's a former cornerback, and he looks like a cornerback."

Indeed, Jones has had an array of dings and dents in his two seasons at tailback. But he's also had tremendous production, averaging 7.9 yards a carry and 14.3 yards per reception in 2010.

Rang stopped just short of comparing Jones to Johnson, who also was considered a second- to third-round pick before his freakish 40. "It's not just his speed and elusiveness," Rang said of Johnson, a three-time Pro Bowl player. "It's his toughness. For his size, to be able to withstand that punishment is phenomenal."

Johnson is listed at 5-11, 191 pounds. Jones measured 6-0, 194 pounds.

I was hyping this kid as a middle round prospect for us a few weeks ago. Looks like he's not much of a secret anymore. He's considered a 2nd to 3rd round now. But seems like the 49ers are doing their jobs and going to look at the kid.

There are two major differences between CJ and TJ.

1) Level of competition

2) Injury history

You could also add that scouts think he's not going to be able to take the punishment of interior running like CJ has been able to do for the most part. If Taiwan doesn't clock in the 4.3's, the end of the 3rd round will likely be his highest point to be drafted.

Now all that said, I'd be very, very happy to get Jones in as the third back and speed rusher. He'd be an excellent complement to both Gore and Dixon. Plus, he brings KR ability.

Yeah I really don't see him as a CJ back. He doesn't look at fast to me. But he definitely would be our speed back. When I was looking at Mid to Late RBs awhile back he was rated at a 5-6 round back by CBSSports.com. Seems like the hype machine got his name, now Rang has him 2-3 round and CBS has him as a 3-4 rounder. If he were to somehow slip to the 4th round area, I'd love to have him on our team as the change of pace back we've been needing. I still think 1-3 rounds are for QB, CB, and OLB in whatever order. The rest of the draft can be for prospects like Jones.
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Speedy RB Jones to Make Up for Lost Time
Quote:

Taiwan Jones is preparing to do his best Chris Johnson impression. Johnson, of course, burst onto the scene - almost literally - in 2008 when he ran his 40-yard dash in a dizzying 4.24 seconds. Two months later, the Titans selected him with the 24th overall pick.

Jones, meanwhile, is viewed as the best approximation of Johnson in this year's draft class. The Eastern Washington tailback (by way of Deer Valley High in Antioch) did not run at the combine because he was still recovering from a broken foot suffered in early December. However, he will work out for teams April 14 in Pittsburg. The session promises to be well-attended by NFL types, including the 49ers.

CBS Sports draft analyst Rob Rang said he's spoken to teams that see Jones as a second-round pick. "He's the best open-field runner in this draft," Rang said. "I expect 4.3 (second) speed. His lateral quickness is pretty amazing. The question is durability. He's a former cornerback, and he looks like a cornerback."

Indeed, Jones has had an array of dings and dents in his two seasons at tailback. But he's also had tremendous production, averaging 7.9 yards a carry and 14.3 yards per reception in 2010.

Rang stopped just short of comparing Jones to Johnson, who also was considered a second- to third-round pick before his freakish 40. "It's not just his speed and elusiveness," Rang said of Johnson, a three-time Pro Bowl player. "It's his toughness. For his size, to be able to withstand that punishment is phenomenal."

Johnson is listed at 5-11, 191 pounds. Jones measured 6-0, 194 pounds.

I was hyping this kid as a middle round prospect for us a few weeks ago. Looks like he's not much of a secret anymore. He's considered a 2nd to 3rd round now. But seems like the 49ers are doing their jobs and going to look at the kid.

There are two major differences between CJ and TJ.

1) Level of competition

2) Injury history

You could also add that scouts think he's not going to be able to take the punishment of interior running like CJ has been able to do for the most part. If Taiwan doesn't clock in the 4.3's, the end of the 3rd round will likely be his highest point to be drafted.

Now all that said, I'd be very, very happy to get Jones in as the third back and speed rusher. He'd be an excellent complement to both Gore and Dixon. Plus, he brings KR ability.

Yeah I really don't see him as a CJ back. He doesn't look at fast to me. But he definitely would be our speed back. When I was looking at Mid to Late RBs awhile back he was rated at a 5-6 round back by CBSSports.com. Seems like the hype machine got his name, now Rang has him 2-3 round and CBS has him as a 3-4 rounder. If he were to somehow slip to the 4th round area, I'd love to have him on our team as the change of pace back we've been needing. I still think 1-3 rounds are for QB, CB, and OLB in whatever order. The rest of the draft can be for prospects like Jones.

It's no secret that my favorite running back of the class is Kendall Hunter, but I just can't see us spending a pick on him early, as I see almost no chance of him falling past the first half of the 3rd round, and project him right now to go in the late 2nd.

If we're looking RB in the 4th-7th, aside from Taiwan Jones, I think the following would be good options to pair with Gore for a one-two punch (depending on the game situation):

Shane Vereen, Jacquizz Rodgers, Derrick Locke, Noel Devine, Nic Grigsby, Darren Evans, and DuJuan Harris.
  • buck
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How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.
Since the Niners possess two "between the tackles", full-sized rushers in Gore and Davis, I think they would go with a smaller, change of pace back, like Derrick Locke of Kentucky. Great hands, very quick, can line him up in the slot. If he is there in the fourth round (I doubt), he would be a very intriguing piece of the puzzle.

Locke needs to stay healthy.

In the WCO, all the RB's on the field need to have solid hands, so the team is going to eliminate anyone who does not possess good receiving skills.

P.S. For the record, I love this running back class. I think there are a lot of guys who are going to make major contributions: Williams, LeShoure, Todman, Hunter, Green, Locke, Thomas, Jones, Helu. To me, it may be the deepest position on offense in this draft.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Apr 2, 2011 at 9:01 PM ]
Great lists MD and OTC, have a question. How do you both view Dion Lewis? Something about this kid impresses me. He's small but is not afraid to run between the tackles. He ran slow at the combine (4.57), but at his Pro-Day ran a faster 40 (4.47). He has great vision, is more quick then fast, he's elusive and shifty, can catch out of the backfield, has great production. Also he was doing KR/PR drills at his Pro-Day to show he could do that too, if needed. He reminds me of a shiftier Ray Rice. Both were about the same size going into the draft and ran about the same (Rice ran a 4.48 40).
  • 9moon
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The experts keeps talkin abot the kid from Kansas State.. I heard someone mentioned that he's career really never materialized due to injuries..

I've also heard that the all around Murray doest not like contact..

Maybe, just maybe, when it's all said and done, Leshoure (spelled right), may just end up being the best back in this draft..

and that being said, I would then expect Shanny to keep things quiet and draft this kid in the 2nd round..
  • buck
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Originally posted by 9moon:
The experts keeps talkin abot the kid from Kansas State.. I heard someone mentioned that he's career really never materialized due to injuries..

I've also heard that the all around Murray doest not like contact..

Maybe, just maybe, when it's all said and done, Leshoure (spelled right), may just end up being the best back in this draft..

and that being said, I would then expect Shanny to keep things quiet and draft this kid in the 2nd round..

Who isShanny?
[ Edited by buck on Apr 2, 2011 at 11:08 PM ]
No one has mentioned Alex Green RB from Hawaii or Da'Rel Scott RB from Maryland. Either one would be a good pickup in the mid to late rounds.
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
No one has mentioned Alex Green RB from Hawaii or Da'Rel Scott RB from Maryland. Either one would be a good pickup in the mid to late rounds.

Scott could be an option in the rotation, sure. Wouldn't mind him at all. His injuries are a concern, but he wouldn't be on the field all the time on this team. We could greatly use his speed.

Green I don't think would really fit the 3-back committee most of us are thinking about right now. Green is not going to shake and bake you, and is a straight ahead downhill runner. He's big, strong, and can pound it in there, and has surprising hands for a big man.. however, we need a change of pace guy. Green is a good back, but he doesn't change the pace from the style of play that Gore and Dixon bring. Gore is an all around balanced back with good but not exactly "breakaway" speed. Dixon is big, can run you over, and has amazing agility and moves for a big man. Now we need a burner who we can have flying out in the flats on certain situations or knifing up the middle on draws; someone who is also a very adept pass-catcher.

Every team is different in what their complement of backs are, but each team does its best to get the full assortment of "qualities" so to speak. The two we're majorly missing are of course blistering speed/sensational quickness and pass-catching.
Originally posted by buck:
How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.

Most draft profiles suggest that he runs like Chris Johnson, meaning despite his size, he tries to out run defenders. He won't have the speed to do that in the NFL.
Scott

  • buck
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Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.

Most draft profiles suggest that he runs like Chris Johnson, meaning despite his size, he tries to out run defenders. He won't have the speed to do that in the NFL.
Scott

I am willing to agree that a 4.40 does put Helu in the speed range of Chris Johnson. But, can you provide links to these most draft profiles?

edit: I decided to look at draft profiles of Helu.

Most agree that he runs too upright and needs to learn block better, but then most college backs do not block all that well.

Here are reports I found (with links;hint, hint, hint)

Helu is a huge back, but he plays like Chris Johnson. He has big play ability, and while he's certainly not going to run a 4.24 in the 40 yard dash, he's got a lot of speed and a heck of a lot of ability. He's losing carries to Taylor Martinez, but he's still putting up HUGE numbers.

From
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/31/1784635/nebraska-rb-roy-helu-and-other-impressive-prospects

Very explosive runner with great acceleration to the hole. Shows very good patience to let blocks develop in front of him. Owns the breakaway speed to take it all the way once at the second level. Shows good vision and has a nice cutback move to gain extra yardage. Accelerates quickly off his cut. Carries out play fakes well. Bounces outside, able to get the corner. Breaks through arm tackles, lowers his shoulder and plows ahead for extra yards in the open field. Utilizes the stiff arm well. Displays great agility, regularly makes the first defender miss. Runs good routes and makes good use of head and body fakes to create separation. Possesses leadership qualities, earned a reputation for being a real team player.

From

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272498

Flashes the quickness and speed to get through the hole and into the defensive backfield. Is a natural pass catcher who consistently plucks the ball away from his body and is a productive runner after the catch.

http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/draft/2011/players/9827.html
Many draft analysts have Helu ranked as a middle-round selection.
Helu ran the second-fastest 40-yard dash with a 4.40 clocking behind Maryland running Da'Rel Scot.

Hellu had the fastest 10-yard split (1.50), fastest 20-yard split (2.52), short shuttle (4.01) L-drill (6.67) and long shuttle (11.07).
"Helu had the best workout by a runner at the combine," said an NFL general manager. "More importantly, he caught the ball well and was really smooth in position drills."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sources-Nebraskas-Roy-Helu-on-the-rise.html

Helu has the size and speed to become an impact player as a rookie, and speed makes up for a multitude of inexperience. With the potential Helu brings to the table, and an expected fall to the late rounds of the 2011 draft, Helu is one of those picks that has to be called a "no-brainer".

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/627764-dallas-cowboys-2011-draft-roy-helu-jr-filling-marion-barbers-roster-spot

Prototypical size. A consistent runner who has shown the ability to be workhorse. A powerful between-the-tackles runner. Has the strength to consistently shed tackles. A physical player who looks for contact. Stays low to the ground and does a nice job lowering his shoulder. Some experience as a receiver out of the backfield.

http://draftace.com/blog/2011/04/03/roy-helu-scouting-report/
NEWS

Roy Helu has somehow managed to exist almost in anonimity but that’s beginning to change. The 6’0′, 220lb back is getting more attention after running a 4.40 forty at the combine. He should have gotten more of the spotlight sooner considering he is among the most productive backs in Nebraska history.

http://www.ffspin.com/?p=9210

Helu is widely considered a mid-round selection at this point in the process. He is quick and strong enough to endure the rigors of life in the NFL. With a few good workouts, Helu could work his way up into the third round.
3/25 Update: Helu proved at the NFL combine that he has a nice combination of size and speed. He ran the 40-yard-dash in 4.40 seconds and also showed a nice burst of speed. He did not always look great during position drills (which he did again at Nebraska's pro day), but he is a good value in the third or fourth round for a team who needs a versatile back and a kick returner.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2600
[ Edited by buck on Apr 3, 2011 at 1:35 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.

Most draft profiles suggest that he runs like Chris Johnson, meaning despite his size, he tries to out run defenders. He won't have the speed to do that in the NFL.
Scott

I am willing to agree that a 4.40 does put Helu in the speed range of Chris Johnson. But, can you provide links to these most draft profiles?

4.4 does not put him in the speed range of Chris Johnson. Johnson ran a 4.28 40. So, sure, he is within a 1.5 seconds, but that amount of time in the 40 is rather significant.

As per your request:

“Helu is a huge back, but he plays like Chris Johnson.”
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/31/1784635/nebraska-rb-roy-helu-and-other-impressive-prospects

"Not consistent as an inside power runner, goes down too easily at times. Does not keep his legs moving when wrapped up."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272498

"Not as much power with his game as anticipated. Doesn't always run behind his pads. Also not a churner and doesn't show great ability to push piles."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/27043/roy-helu

"Runs with high pad level and takes punishment. Simply isn't very physical, tough or powerful"
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/RB/Roy-Helu.php

I think he would be a good value later in the draft, like the 4th or 5th round, but the NFP recently reported that Helu's strong offseason showing might earn him a second to third round selection. Given his lack of power, I don't think he'd be worth that.
Scott
  • buck
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Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.

Most draft profiles suggest that he runs like Chris Johnson, meaning despite his size, he tries to out run defenders. He won't have the speed to do that in the NFL.
Scott

I am willing to agree that a 4.40 does put Helu in the speed range of Chris Johnson. But, can you provide links to these most draft profiles?

4.4 does not put him in the speed range of Chris Johnson. Johnson ran a 4.28 40. So, sure, he is within a 1.5 seconds, but that amount of time in the 40 is rather significant.

As per your request:

“Helu is a huge back, but he plays like Chris Johnson.”
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/31/1784635/nebraska-rb-roy-helu-and-other-impressive-prospects

"Not consistent as an inside power runner, goes down too easily at times. Does not keep his legs moving when wrapped up."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272498

"Not as much power with his game as anticipated. Doesn't always run behind his pads. Also not a churner and doesn't show great ability to push piles."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/27043/roy-helu

"Runs with high pad level and takes punishment. Simply isn't very physical, tough or powerful"
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/RB/Roy-Helu.php

I think he would be a good value later in the draft, like the 4th or 5th round, but the NFP recently reported that Helu's strong offseason showing might earn him a second to third round selection. Given his lack of power, I don't think he'd be worth that.
Scott

We agree that is not Chris Johnson fast.

Thanks for the links. I will read them.

I also found some reports. As per the norm, they vary widely.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by feeblefreestyler:
Originally posted by buck:
How about this guy?

Roy Helu RB Nebraska 6' 0" 219 4.40

Rushed for 1,245 yards last year.
Averaged over six yard per rush. Good speed and burst.

Showed good hands at the combine.

Most draft profiles suggest that he runs like Chris Johnson, meaning despite his size, he tries to out run defenders. He won't have the speed to do that in the NFL.
Scott

I am willing to agree that a 4.40 does put Helu in the speed range of Chris Johnson. But, can you provide links to these most draft profiles?

4.4 does not put him in the speed range of Chris Johnson. Johnson ran a 4.28 40. So, sure, he is within a 1.5 seconds, but that amount of time in the 40 is rather significant.

As per your request:

“Helu is a huge back, but he plays like Chris Johnson.”
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/31/1784635/nebraska-rb-roy-helu-and-other-impressive-prospects

"Not consistent as an inside power runner, goes down too easily at times. Does not keep his legs moving when wrapped up."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272498

"Not as much power with his game as anticipated. Doesn't always run behind his pads. Also not a churner and doesn't show great ability to push piles."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/27043/roy-helu

"Runs with high pad level and takes punishment. Simply isn't very physical, tough or powerful"
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/RB/Roy-Helu.php

I think he would be a good value later in the draft, like the 4th or 5th round, but the NFP recently reported that Helu's strong offseason showing might earn him a second to third round selection. Given his lack of power, I don't think he'd be worth that.
Scott

We agree that is not Chris Johnson fast.

Thanks for the links. I will read them.

I also found some reports. As per the norm, they vary widely.

As you noted, the reports vary greatly. This year in particular the RBs seem to be very hard to rank.
Originally posted by tohara3:
How about Darell Scott from Maryland?

Da'rel Scott PLEASE!!!







He also ran the fastest RB 40 at the Combine!
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