There are 65 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Why the Super Bowl should help us at pick #7

Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
the PAckers won b/c of thier 2 star CBs, thats why we need Amukamara

Umm you must have missed the fact that of those 2 corners did not even play in the 2nd half

technically they lost a CB and FS....right?

Woodson and Shields are listed as the first and second string left CBs on the NFL GB site. Kind of refutes the premise of this thread.

Edit: The defensive backfield is very much scheme reliant, whereas a true pass rusher is a thing unto itself. True they need to work within a team framework but guys like Haley and Dean were turned loose to do one thing. That is what the 9ers have lacked and what you need to spend money or high picks to get.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 9, 2011 at 21:46:41 ]
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD
Clay Matthews?
Young2 rice must live in an altered state of reality. Rodgers had many passes where he had loads of time to let his receivers get open downfield. On some plays, when he was being rushed, he also had super receivers and pass routes that gave him the perfect quick outlet. No doubt, Rodgers is an excellent QB, but he is allowed to perform well because the other parts of the machine function superbly.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
For all those people out there that are saying a good pass rusher (Von Miller/Rober Quinn) is much better then a shut down corner (Peterson/Prince) how well did it do for the pass rush specialist Pittsburgh Steelers?? Who lead the league in sacks. If your secondary is swiss cheese you have no chance. Which is why since day 1 I've been saying if Peterson or Prince are at #7 we have to take them over a pass rusher. Lets face it, the Steelers have Harrison at 10.5 sacks, Woodley at 10 sacks and Farrior at 6 sacks this year and they were non-existent during the Super Bowl. Peterson/Prince in 2-3 years will be shut down CB's. Its much harder to find one of those then a pass rusher.

Harrison and Woodley each had a sack in the game, whilst Frank Zombo had one for the Pack. And the play of the game came from Clay Matthews, another pass rusher who caused the fumble.

Harrison, Woodly, Farrior and Timmons. The Steelers biggest strength had 2 sacks and 8.5 tackles. Are you really trying to tell me they had a big impact on the game? The way the Packers played, by spreading them out (not to mention the Packers O-Line played their hearts out) took the LBs out of their comfort zone and they were able to pass the ball pretty much at will. Yes the game was a 6 point game but think about the 2 dropped TD's the Packers had. That game could have been a lot uglier.

Farrior and Timmons are ILB's. What we are talking about is pass rush vs cornerback.

It wasn't the Steelers day. Polamalu had little to no impact as well. It happens. It was also one game. The Steelers made it to their 3rd SuperBowl this decade without a shutdown corner, but with a strong pass rush and a great front 7.

Look at the Colts, no shutdown corners but a good pass rush.

The Giants beat an unbeaten Patriots team with pass rush and pressure, not with shutdown corners.

I could cite examples of teams that have great secondaries or have had them and how important that was to their success but each of those teams usually had a great blue chip pass rusher, or at least a couple of really solid pass rushers. We don't have that, nor have we in a long time.

Another example, the Dallas Cowboys of the 90's, they were a good team that became great when they added Charles Haley. He was a major cog in their wheel, and you can ask Jimmy Johnson who has stated that numerous times before.

A great pass rush makes your secondary look better than they are. A great secondary can't cover forever if you aren't getting pressure. Pass rush is not just about sacks either, it's about putting pressure on the QB, disrupting the timing and rhythm of the play. Don't get me wrong a great secondary is fierce and a great piece of a teams puzzle however the shut down corner is the 4th most important position on a football team, ranking behind QB, LT and Blue Chip Pass Rusher.

I think what i'm trying to say is Peterson/Prince are not going to be good CB's in a few years. They are going to be Revis-like. At least that's what I've seen and what the "experts" are saying. You say a great pass rush can make a secondary look good which I agree with however a great secondary can also make a pass rush better then what it is. Look at the jets. They call them coverage sacks, which btw they were saying both of the Steelers sacks were.

My whole point in this is our need as the San Francisco 49ers. Our weakest link on D was our secondary, now we might be without Clements. So you mean to tell me getting Von Miller will make our secondary better then last year? I don't agree with that. I believe if you have a chance to take an elite CB and it also happens to be a major need we can't pass it up. For every example you gave about a great pass rush winning I can give you an example of a great pass rush doing nothing. Case in point this year. The Dallas Cowboys had the sack leader and it didn't matter b/c their secondary was trash. Look at the 94 Niners, if i'm not mistaken we signed a player for 1 year and that player just so happened to be the defensive player of the year that year and we won our last Super Bowl. Deion Sanders, the original shut down corner. How come before he came we couldn't get over the hump and when he left we couldn't get back??

As for the teams you mentioned I agree the colts have a great pass rush but their secondary w/ Bob Sanders is no where near as bad as ours. Also, the year the Giants beat they Pats your right they did it with a pass rush but once again their secondary wasn't nearly as bad as ours. I agree 100% that a team needs a great pass rush but I don't think 1 player is going to fix our whole pass rush. I would bet with what we have right now b/c of the scheme we're going to run this year we'll get more pressure. The biggest problem is to run a Dom Capers like D (which they're saying is similiar to what we want to do) you have to have a Shut Down corner. Someone that can lock onto Reggie Wayne like Revis did this year in the playoffs and make all the other WR's step up and beat them. Which they couldn't do.

My biggest point honestly is if Peterson and Prince are going to be true "shut down" corners, that it's harder to find them then it is a great pass rusher. That's why if Fangio believes either one of them can be a lock down CB I think he has to take him. Peterson is almost a lock as a Revis-like CB and if Prince can prove his speed is as good as Peterson's then he's right there with him. Some people would even take Prince over Peterson IF he shows at the combine what I think he's going to. That's another think I like about Prince, he said he has nothing to hide and he willing to show the world how good he is and he will be participating in everything at the combine. He's not going to just run the 40 then wait til his pro day when he's on turf he's familiar with and players he's familiar with to try and impress people. He has a swagger about him a CB needs and I love that about him. Same thing Suh did last year, guess that's the Nebraska way...
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
wasnt the packers secondary swiss cheese after woodson went out?

It was their pass rushing specialist that forced a fumble.

It was their pass rush that forced Big Ben to throw that INT for a TD

Correct, when their shut down corner was in the game the Steelers werent moving the ball. When their shut down corner left the game then the Steelers came back, even with their great pass rushers.

Sorry about all the posts, my computer froze. Does anyone know how to erase a post once it's been posted??
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by excelsior:
I remember some arguing that Aaron Rodgers functioned well even with a bad OL. If they were right about his line being bad, I guess that means that the PITT defense must have had a really bad day at the SB.

Well who needs an OL when you can get the ball out in 1.5 seconds ANYWHERE on the field to ANY reciever...even when your guys covered and are dropping perfectly thrown balls.

The pass rush is irrelevant when you are tearing s**t up that he did.

That performance was epic bro....



1.5 seconds? I think your stopwatch is broken bro....

The reason he made all those throws was because his OL did an excelent job in blitz pickup. They were obviously very prepared for the steeler blitz. And it's obvious the the steelers weren't prepared for the greenbay blitz.
The Steelers always have a great pass rush. They are always in the playoffs. How many times can you say they had shutdown corners? I can't remember the last shutdown corner they had. There corners are good but not shutdown type.

The Raiders have a shutdown corner and they are never in the playoffs. Denver too. What about the Ravens?

However I would agree that a shutdown corner is rarer than a good OLB. I just don't see Prince as a shutdown corner. I think he will be good but I just don't see him as a shutdown corner.
Originally posted by miked1978:
The Steelers always have a great pass rush. They are always in the playoffs. How many times can you say they had shutdown corners? I can't remember the last shutdown corner they had. There corners are good but not shutdown type.

The Raiders have a shutdown corner and they are never in the playoffs. Denver too. What about the Ravens?

However I would agree that a shutdown corner is rarer than a good OLB. I just don't see Prince as a shutdown corner. I think he will be good but I just don't see him as a shutdown corner.

Again your talking about whole teams that have great pass rushers, we're just talking about 1 guy here. Von Miller/Quinn/Jordan (ok maybe I threw Jordan in there). That's the difference, we're talking about who would make a bigger impact on the 49ers right now? Prince or a pass rusher. Now if you don't believe the "experts" or for me, my own eyes... I've seen him play multiple times and except for that 1 game where he gave up 5 catches for i think 150 yards and a td, which was against a speed WR, he was lights out, teams don't even look his way 75% of the time. If you don't believe Prince is going to be a shut down corner. Then I understand 100% why you'd rather have a pass rusher. However, once Prince shows he has football speed (i'm not really worried about the 40 yd dash. football speed w/ pads and everything like that on is completely different). If he shows he does have that top end speed then I honestly believe Peterson and Prince are both coming out of college ahead of where Revis was when he came out. Now, Revis took a few years to develop and lets face it, having that agggressive D around him helps his style of play but that's exactly what we want from our D. Fangio wants to bring that "packer,raven,eagle,jet" type of defense where the CB's are shut down, play very close to the line, and they bring pressure from EVERYWHERE!! I really think to run a D like that though u need a shut down corner like... Woodson, McCallister (who I don't believe is a shut down corner however when you pair him with Ed Reed who lead the NFL in Ints, it makes him very good), Asante Samuels,Darrell Revis. You can honestly add in the Steelers but we know they're secondary is their weakness position but once again, when your playing w/ Polamalu who was 3rd in INTs this year. It elevates the whole secondary. I hope Peterson falls to us so we don't even have to play the "what if" game..... the big question I asked in another post is What if A.J. Green falls to us???
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
Originally posted by miked1978:
The Steelers always have a great pass rush. They are always in the playoffs. How many times can you say they had shutdown corners? I can't remember the last shutdown corner they had. There corners are good but not shutdown type.

The Raiders have a shutdown corner and they are never in the playoffs. Denver too. What about the Ravens?

However I would agree that a shutdown corner is rarer than a good OLB. I just don't see Prince as a shutdown corner. I think he will be good but I just don't see him as a shutdown corner.

Again your talking about whole teams that have great pass rushers, we're just talking about 1 guy here. Von Miller/Quinn/Jordan (ok maybe I threw Jordan in there). That's the difference, we're talking about who would make a bigger impact on the 49ers right now? Prince or a pass rusher. Now if you don't believe the "experts" or for me, my own eyes... I've seen him play multiple times and except for that 1 game where he gave up 5 catches for i think 150 yards and a td, which was against a speed WR, he was lights out, teams don't even look his way 75% of the time. If you don't believe Prince is going to be a shut down corner. Then I understand 100% why you'd rather have a pass rusher. However, once Prince shows he has football speed (i'm not really worried about the 40 yd dash. football speed w/ pads and everything like that on is completely different). If he shows he does have that top end speed then I honestly believe Peterson and Prince are both coming out of college ahead of where Revis was when he came out. Now, Revis took a few years to develop and lets face it, having that agggressive D around him helps his style of play but that's exactly what we want from our D. Fangio wants to bring that "packer,raven,eagle,jet" type of defense where the CB's are shut down, play very close to the line, and they bring pressure from EVERYWHERE!! I really think to run a D like that though u need a shut down corner like... Woodson, McCallister (who I don't believe is a shut down corner however when you pair him with Ed Reed who lead the NFL in Ints, it makes him very good), Asante Samuels,Darrell Revis. You can honestly add in the Steelers but we know they're secondary is their weakness position but once again, when your playing w/ Polamalu who was 3rd in INTs this year. It elevates the whole secondary. I hope Peterson falls to us so we don't even have to play the "what if" game..... the big question I asked in another post is What if A.J. Green falls to us???


It's difficult to just choose 1 player over another as football is a team game. In general, a good pass rush makes the secondary better. A shutdown corner while very desireable take away a portion of the field. This can be schemed against. Also even the All Pro CB's can only stay with the receivers for so long. Given this, I'm leaning OLB over CB. But I'd love to have both Prince and Peterson on my team.