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Why the Super Bowl should help us at pick #7

Originally posted by joeymac49s:
For all those people out there that are saying a good pass rusher (Von Miller/Rober Quinn) is much better then a shut down corner (Peterson/Prince) how well did it do for the pass rush specialist Pittsburgh Steelers?? Who lead the league in sacks. If your secondary is swiss cheese you have no chance. Which is why since day 1 I've been saying if Peterson or Prince are at #7 we have to take them over a pass rusher. Lets face it, the Steelers have Harrison at 10.5 sacks, Woodley at 10 sacks and Farrior at 6 sacks this year and they were non-existent during the Super Bowl. Peterson/Prince in 2-3 years will be shut down CB's. Its much harder to find one of those then a pass rusher.

This argument is really getting annoying. Not that it doesn't have any validity, but the reality is Superbowl teams have BOTH a good pass rush AND secondary. One or the other is not going to solve the defensive problems of the 9ers. The argument should really be, which is weaker on the 9er defense? Pass rush or secondary and choose to improve the weaker with the first pick. Based on what I have read so far, our secondary has been weaker than our pass rush. Therefore, you would want to select the best CB available before the best pass rusher. However, if you have a stud pass rusher and P. Peterson is gone, and that pass rusher was rated higher or was more talented than Prince, you take the pass rusher. This approach is commonly known as best player available.
more times than not a good pass rush on a given play will result in it being easier to cover or db's looking better

it does happen but not as often will awesome coverage result in a sack

they are both needed but everyone knows football is about 3 things
-having a quarterback
-protecting the quarterback
-getting to the quarterback

-----seems to me pass rush is a lot more important
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Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
the PAckers won b/c of thier 2 star CBs, thats why we need Amukamara

Didnt they get hurt? I saw Woodson on the sidelines.

Which is why it was a close game in 2nd half vs 1st half

With Charles Woodson in they only had 3 points

Quote:
Was it because they were without Woodson that the Steelers offense started to click or was it because they made some halftime adjustments to what the Packers were doing defensively ?
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
the PAckers won b/c of thier 2 star CBs, thats why we need Amukamara

Didnt they get hurt? I saw Woodson on the sidelines.

Which is why it was a close game in 2nd half vs 1st half

With Charles Woodson in they only had 3 points

How did the Bears get back in the game then? They had a much better 2nd half as well. What is your explanation for that?
Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
more times than not a good pass rush on a given play will result in it being easier to cover or db's looking better

it does happen but not as often will awesome coverage result in a sack

they are both needed but everyone knows football is about 3 things
-having a quarterback
-protecting the quarterback
-getting to the quarterback

-----seems to me pass rush is a lot more important


I think your missing something...
-the team with the most turnovers normally wins. Like I said, sacks are great but Ints turn a game around. As for people talking to me like i'm a moron... if you read my other posts I state we need both. The reason I say peteron or prince is b/c of the potential they have to be a shut down corner. If they're both gone then I agree 100% with taking a pass rusher (Von Miller) i'm not saying a pass rush is not important we don't need one but if you haven't noticed our front 7 played very good this year. Most of the time, our biggest weakness was our secondary and with the potential loss of Clements it could get even worse.

[ Edited by joeymac49s on Feb 9, 2011 at 12:02:59 ]
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
For all those people out there that are saying a good pass rusher (Von Miller/Rober Quinn) is much better then a shut down corner (Peterson/Prince) how well did it do for the pass rush specialist Pittsburgh Steelers?? Who lead the league in sacks. If your secondary is swiss cheese you have no chance. Which is why since day 1 I've been saying if Peterson or Prince are at #7 we have to take them over a pass rusher. Lets face it, the Steelers have Harrison at 10.5 sacks, Woodley at 10 sacks and Farrior at 6 sacks this year and they were non-existent during the Super Bowl. Peterson/Prince in 2-3 years will be shut down CB's. Its much harder to find one of those then a pass rusher.

Harrison and Woodley each had a sack in the game, whilst Frank Zombo had one for the Pack. And the play of the game came from Clay Matthews, another pass rusher who caused the fumble.

Harrison, Woodly, Farrior and Timmons. The Steelers biggest strength had 2 sacks and 8.5 tackles. Are you really trying to tell me they had a big impact on the game? The way the Packers played, by spreading them out (not to mention the Packers O-Line played their hearts out) took the LBs out of their comfort zone and they were able to pass the ball pretty much at will. Yes the game was a 6 point game but think about the 2 dropped TD's the Packers had. That game could have been a lot uglier.
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I've debated this point a few years ago. Ironically due to the Steelers, Colts game. In that game Steelers had mad pressure on Manning. Something like 6-7 sacks and like 5 or 6 hurries. Yet Manning still put up Manning type numbers.

Simply because he dropped back 41 times and only had pressure on 13 of them. Nearly 1/3. Which is awesome. But it meant that their weak pass defense had to defend the pass with no pressure 2/3 of the time Manning dropped back. Which doesn't change the fact that even with pressure they still need to watch the WR.

That is why I thought that a CB was more important than a pass rusher. But now after year after year after year of not having a legit pass rusher. I rather have one of them. Cause unless you have 2 shut down corners or 1 shut down corner and a ball hawking saftey(to help the other corners) they can be taken out of the game.
Originally posted by miked1978:
Peterson yes, Prince has question marks. If i remember correctly he got raped over and over by that Oklahoma State WR.

A 3-4 pass rusher isn't easy to find neither.

The Jets have the best corner in the game and Cromartie isn't that bad neither but they lack a great pass rush. Haven't seen them in the Super Bowl.

yeah it was Justin Blackmon from OSU, made him look like Mike Rumph
Got a good point I mean who came up with the game clinching play.....a CB. A rookie one at that.....interesting.
Originally posted by krizay:
I've debated this point a few years ago. Ironically due to the Steelers, Colts game. In that game Steelers had mad pressure on Manning. Something like 6-7 sacks and like 5 or 6 hurries. Yet Manning still put up Manning type numbers.

Simply because he dropped back 41 times and only had pressure on 13 of them. Nearly 1/3. Which is awesome. But it meant that their weak pass defense had to defend the pass with no pressure 2/3 of the time Manning dropped back. Which doesn't change the fact that even with pressure they still need to watch the WR.

That is why I thought that a CB was more important than a pass rusher. But now after year after year after year of not having a legit pass rusher. I rather have one of them. Cause unless you have 2 shut down corners or 1 shut down corner and a ball hawking saftey(to help the other corners) they can be taken out of the game.

Trust me I know EXACTLY what you mean, it is very frusterating. Almost as frusterating as watching Chilo on the offensive line. Like I said FA #1 Asomugha, then draft Amukama... Double A's and Mays in the secondary... after a year or two... SCARY!!! My opinion, at #7 I would go Peterson/Prince/Von Miller/Cameron Jordan, in that order. If we get any 1 of those 4 I will be very happy with the way the draft went. I know people are saying Jordan is a mid to late 1st rounder but after watching him practice and play at the Senior Bowl... I could def see him in red and gold!! Would be nice to take Prince at 7 then jump back up into the bottom half of the 1st rd and grab Cameron Jordan.... that would be Bill Walshesque!!! AHHHHHH one could dream........
Originally posted by krizay:
I've debated this point a few years ago. Ironically due to the Steelers, Colts game. In that game Steelers had mad pressure on Manning. Something like 6-7 sacks and like 5 or 6 hurries. Yet Manning still put up Manning type numbers.

Simply because he dropped back 41 times and only had pressure on 13 of them. Nearly 1/3. Which is awesome. But it meant that their weak pass defense had to defend the pass with no pressure 2/3 of the time Manning dropped back. Which doesn't change the fact that even with pressure they still need to watch the WR.

That is why I thought that a CB was more important than a pass rusher. But now after year after year after year of not having a legit pass rusher. I rather have one of them. Cause unless you have 2 shut down corners or 1 shut down corner and a ball hawking saftey(to help the other corners) they can be taken out of the game.

you cant make an arguement based solely off elite qb's...look at manning, brady, rivers, brees, and rodgers games against teams with elite qbs or just overall solid db's. they still put up great numbers because they are elite qbs
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Originally posted by joeymac49s:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by joeymac49s:
For all those people out there that are saying a good pass rusher (Von Miller/Rober Quinn) is much better then a shut down corner (Peterson/Prince) how well did it do for the pass rush specialist Pittsburgh Steelers?? Who lead the league in sacks. If your secondary is swiss cheese you have no chance. Which is why since day 1 I've been saying if Peterson or Prince are at #7 we have to take them over a pass rusher. Lets face it, the Steelers have Harrison at 10.5 sacks, Woodley at 10 sacks and Farrior at 6 sacks this year and they were non-existent during the Super Bowl. Peterson/Prince in 2-3 years will be shut down CB's. Its much harder to find one of those then a pass rusher.

Harrison and Woodley each had a sack in the game, whilst Frank Zombo had one for the Pack. And the play of the game came from Clay Matthews, another pass rusher who caused the fumble.

Harrison, Woodly, Farrior and Timmons. The Steelers biggest strength had 2 sacks and 8.5 tackles. Are you really trying to tell me they had a big impact on the game? The way the Packers played, by spreading them out (not to mention the Packers O-Line played their hearts out) took the LBs out of their comfort zone and they were able to pass the ball pretty much at will. Yes the game was a 6 point game but think about the 2 dropped TD's the Packers had. That game could have been a lot uglier.

Farrior and Timmons are ILB's. What we are talking about is pass rush vs cornerback.

It wasn't the Steelers day. Polamalu had little to no impact as well. It happens. It was also one game. The Steelers made it to their 3rd SuperBowl this decade without a shutdown corner, but with a strong pass rush and a great front 7.

Look at the Colts, no shutdown corners but a good pass rush.

The Giants beat an unbeaten Patriots team with pass rush and pressure, not with shutdown corners.

I could cite examples of teams that have great secondaries or have had them and how important that was to their success but each of those teams usually had a great blue chip pass rusher, or at least a couple of really solid pass rushers. We don't have that, nor have we in a long time.

Another example, the Dallas Cowboys of the 90's, they were a good team that became great when they added Charles Haley. He was a major cog in their wheel, and you can ask Jimmy Johnson who has stated that numerous times before.

A great pass rush makes your secondary look better than they are. A great secondary can't cover forever if you aren't getting pressure. Pass rush is not just about sacks either, it's about putting pressure on the QB, disrupting the timing and rhythm of the play. Don't get me wrong a great secondary is fierce and a great piece of a teams puzzle however the shut down corner is the 4th most important position on a football team, ranking behind QB, LT and Blue Chip Pass Rusher.
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Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Got a good point I mean who came up with the game clinching play.....a CB. A rookie one at that.....interesting.

You mean Clay Matthews with the hit on Mendenhall that caused the fumble right ? Because that play gave Green Bay back some much needed momentum.
I remember some arguing that Aaron Rodgers functioned well even with a bad OL. If they were right about his line being bad, I guess that means that the PITT defense must have had a really bad day at the SB.
Originally posted by excelsior:
I remember some arguing that Aaron Rodgers functioned well even with a bad OL. If they were right about his line being bad, I guess that means that the PITT defense must have had a really bad day at the SB.

Well who needs an OL when you can get the ball out in 1.5 seconds ANYWHERE on the field to ANY reciever...even when your guys covered and are dropping perfectly thrown balls.

The pass rush is irrelevant when you are tearing s**t up that he did.

That performance was epic bro....





[ Edited by Young2Rice on Feb 9, 2011 at 21:12:48 ]