There are 116 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

FCUK Robert Quinn

Originally posted by SF69ers:
I'm a big fan of Quinn and Prince and I'd be jumping and celebrating if we got one of them at #7, but at this point, I would select Quinn in the 1st round mainly because the drop off in talent for potential 3-4 OLBs is huge IMO. The value at corners are there in the 2nd and 3rd round with Dowling, C. Brown, Burton, D. House, Jalil Brown, Carmichael, Johnny Patrick, etc. The only pass rushers I see that are worth it in the 2nd and 3rd round are Sheard, Chris Carter, Acho, and possibly Romeus.

My thoughts exactly! Dowling has 1st round ability, and Carmichael has great ball skills despite not having ideal size.
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I'm a big fan of Quinn and Prince and I'd be jumping and celebrating if we got one of them at #7, but at this point, I would select Quinn in the 1st round mainly because the drop off in talent for potential 3-4 OLBs is huge IMO. The value at corners are there in the 2nd and 3rd round with Dowling, C. Brown, Burton, D. House, Jalil Brown, Carmichael, Johnny Patrick, etc. The only pass rushers I see that are worth it in the 2nd and 3rd round are Sheard, Chris Carter, Acho, and possibly Romeus.

My thoughts exactly! Dowling has 1st round ability, and Carmichael has great ball skills despite not having ideal size.

I'd probably steer clear of Dowling mainly because of his injury concerns. I do like Carmichael a lot and Patrick (although the off field stuff is a big concern). My dark horse is Jalil Brown, who might possibly fall to the 4th round. He got picked on a lot more by QBs because of Jimmy Smith on the other side, but he showed that he could cover very well. He's very physical and can play man.
  • FL9er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,939
KRS, man you are difficult, that's why you're my favorite poster here. It seems like everyone here is looking in absolutes, when it's not one over the other. My stance is you need both, but all else equal I'd take the pass rusher.

Going toward your examples along with PTulini's, that great Baltimore defense gave up 31 pts in a loss to Steelers. T Sizzle had 3 sacks and they still couldn't stop Pittsburgh? The previous year they couldn't stop Indy despite Reed's 2 INTs, although the offense was to blame for losing that game.

That same Giants defense that smacked Brady around in SB XLII is 2 years removed from giving up over 400 pts. They thought so much of that secondary that has difficulty matching up with Dallas/Philly in their own division that they went out and signed Antrel Rolle (a 1st rounder) to play in their secondary.

We'll see how great the CB play in Pittsburgh is, if they let Taylor walk, unless they sign Asomugha .


The 49ers goal should be higher than just building a team to get to the playoffs, but one that can win in the playoffs against better teams.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by FL9er:
This argument is ridiculous. You need a top level cornerback AND pass rusher to be a top-flight defense. You can't even give the QB a high-five without drawing a 15-yard penalty, and with team's going more to a spread look, the shotgun, 3 step drops, etc. it kinda makes the pass rush less effective (see Super Bowl).

Can the 49ers matchup in the secondary with a New Orleans, Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Green Bay spread attack on offense, the elite teams in the NFC?

Dick LeBeau disagrees. Ask him if guys like Ike Taylor are top level and get back to me on that

How many first rounders have P-burgh spent on outside linebacker? They draft athletic linebackers that fall and use blitz schemes to confuse the sh*t out of O lines.

BTW Pittsburgh's best and most important player is in their secondary. With him they're top 5 without him that great pass rush becomes an average defense. If you're talking about them historically and their run in the 90's they had Rod Woodson who just happens to be a Hall of Fame corner.

You're right that Pittsburgh currently has average corners but they don't have an average secondary. Just like Baltimore with Ed Reed.

Both those teams do have an elite level safety but both have proven you don't need elite level corners.

New England finished 10th and 11th in total defense in 2008 & 2009 without Samuel. The Giants won a SB without an elite level corner but a tremendous front 4. Point is you don't need an elite level corner or even an elite level safety if you have a great pass rush, just a solid secondary and obviously a DC who knows how to use his talent.

New England has an amazing interior defensive line. Their outside linebackers suck. Tully Banta Cain is their primary pass rusher. Let's not make the argument for Robert Quinn with a team that uses our trash as their main outside pass rusher.

I'll give you the Giants. They won a Super Bowl primary because their defensive line. Good luck recreating that and understand that they didn't do it by throwing 1st round picks at it. Strahan, Usi, Tuck. 2nd and 3rd round picks.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Apr 25, 2011 at 9:39 AM ]
Originally posted by FL9er:
KRS, man you are difficult, that's why you're my favorite poster here. It seems like everyone here is looking in absolutes, when it's not one over the other. My stance is you need both, but all else equal I'd take the pass rusher.

Going toward your examples along with PTulini's, that great Baltimore defense gave up 31 pts in a loss to Steelers. T Sizzle had 3 sacks and they still couldn't stop Pittsburgh? The previous year they couldn't stop Indy despite Reed's 2 INTs, although the offense was to blame for losing that game.

That same Giants defense that smacked Brady around in SB XLII is 2 years removed from giving up over 400 pts. They thought so much of that secondary that has difficulty matching up with Dallas/Philly in their own division that they went out and signed Antrel Rolle (a 1st rounder) to play in their secondary.


We'll see how great the CB play in Pittsburgh is, if they let Taylor walk, unless they sign Asomugha .


The 49ers goal should be higher than just building a team to get to the playoffs, but one that can win in the playoffs against better teams.

To be fair, that criticism of the offense is justified. Joe Flacco didn't exactly "light it up."
Originally posted by FL9er:
KRS, man you are difficult, that's why you're my favorite poster here. It seems like everyone here is looking in absolutes, when it's not one over the other. My stance is you need both, but all else equal I'd take the pass rusher.

Going toward your examples along with PTulini's, that great Baltimore defense gave up 31 pts in a loss to Steelers. T Sizzle had 3 sacks and they still couldn't stop Pittsburgh? The previous year they couldn't stop Indy despite Reed's 2 INTs, although the offense was to blame for losing that game.

That same Giants defense that smacked Brady around in SB XLII is 2 years removed from giving up over 400 pts. They thought so much of that secondary that has difficulty matching up with Dallas/Philly in their own division that they went out and signed Antrel Rolle (a 1st rounder) to play in their secondary.

We'll see how great the CB play in Pittsburgh is, if they let Taylor walk, unless they sign Asomugha .


The 49ers goal should be higher than just building a team to get to the playoffs, but one that can win in the playoffs against better teams.

Baltimore did allow 31 points however they also held Pittsburgh to 13 and 14 points earlier in the year. You can't take that one game out of context, Pittsburgh and Baltimore were ranked 1st and 3rd respectively in points allowed last year.

The Giants signed Rolle who is a solid payer however not elite...but let us not forget the uncertainty that surrounded Kenny Phillips who had to have microfracture surgery which played a role (no pun intended) in their need to add a talented player to the safety position.

Also the 2009 Giants D that surrendered 400+ points did that without Spagnuolo. Bill Sheridan who replaced Spags was one and done. Thus why I said you need a DC who knows how to effectively use his players.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by FL9er:
KRS, man you are difficult, that's why you're my favorite poster here. It seems like everyone here is looking in absolutes, when it's not one over the other. My stance is you need both, but all else equal I'd take the pass rusher.

Going toward your examples along with PTulini's, that great Baltimore defense gave up 31 pts in a loss to Steelers. T Sizzle had 3 sacks and they still couldn't stop Pittsburgh? The previous year they couldn't stop Indy despite Reed's 2 INTs, although the offense was to blame for losing that game.

That same Giants defense that smacked Brady around in SB XLII is 2 years removed from giving up over 400 pts. They thought so much of that secondary that has difficulty matching up with Dallas/Philly in their own division that they went out and signed Antrel Rolle (a 1st rounder) to play in their secondary.

We'll see how great the CB play in Pittsburgh is, if they let Taylor walk, unless they sign Asomugha .


The 49ers goal should be higher than just building a team to get to the playoffs, but one that can win in the playoffs against better teams.

Baltimore did allow 31 points however they also held Pittsburgh to 13 and 14 points earlier in the year. You can't take that one game out of context, Pittsburgh and Baltimore were ranked 1st and 3rd respectively in points allowed last year.

The Giants signed Rolle who is a solid payer however not elite...but let us not forget the uncertainty that surrounded Kenny Phillips who had to have microfracture surgery which played a role (no pun intended) in their need to add a talented player to the safety position.

Also the 2009 Giants D that surrendered 400+ points did that without Spagnuolo. Bill Sheridan who replaced Spags was one and done. Thus why I said you need a DC who knows how to effectively use his players.

If we had a difference maker at safety like Pittsburgh or Baltimore does then I make give you those examples. We don't. Our safeties our just as average as our corners are.

You can point to Asomugha and Oakland and I can point to Houston and Mario Williams. For the most part you need difference makers on both ends.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Apr 25, 2011 at 10:22 AM ]
Blogger mock: Robert Quinn to the 49ers - ESPN

Quote:
By: Mike Sando

Von Miller, Robert Quinn, J.J. Watt and Mark Ingram landed in the NFC West thanks to my shrewd maneuvering in ESPN.com's Blog Network mock draft for 2011.

I'm breaking out my selections on a team-by-team basis, with explanations that hopefully will invite your points and counterpoints. Running back Mark Ingram unexpectedly landed with Seattle at No. 25, while I somewhat sheepishly sent J.J. Watt to St. Louis at No. 14.

Let's continue in reverse order, with the San Francisco 49ers at No. 7.

The selection: Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina

Off the board: Quarterbacks Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert; defensive lineman Marcell Dareus; cornerbacks Patrick Peterson; outside linebacker Von Miller; and receiver A.J. Green.

The thinking: This was one of those high-risk, high-reward selections easier to make in a mock draft than when your career as general manager is riding on the outcome. Quinn would give 49ers defensive coordinator Vic Fangio a pass-rushing prospect to build around. Fangio sought a similar building block in Houston when the Texans used the 27th choice of the 2004 draft for Jason Babin, a player Fangio hoped would project in the Kevin Greene mold. Babin didn't do much before earning Pro Bowl status with Tennessee last season. As for Quinn, he qualifies as a potentially one-dimensional player with medical concerns stemming from the benign brain tumor doctors discovered in 2007. But his raw pass-rush potential appeals. There were other legitimate options and safer ones available when I made this selection. Cornerback Prince Amukamara was one, but teams tend to value pass-rush production over coverage skills in the secondary. Some 49ers fans have worried their team won't feel great about any of the prospects available at No. 7. I had that feeling to an extent while making this selection, but only because scouting reports on Miller and Peterson made them sound like superior options, if available. Check back in three years to see if those reports were accurate.

Odds of this happening: Decent shot. This one feels better than the previous NFC West selections, but it should. There were only six players off the board this time.
Originally posted by Travisty13:

How I do my scouting? Lol. Neither of us are "scouts" we're casual fans with our own observations. What makes your "scouting" better then mine? Cause you watched it on tv while I had to watch that same video posted on youtube? Its the same thing. I highly doubt your getting coaches film, going home and breaking down everyone game by game. I've watched him too and didn't see him get double teamed. My observation and my opinion is not going to change. He's a high risk player, that hasn't shown enough, to me, to warrant a high pick.

In the 2nd play that you mentioned, the guard had open protection, so swung to help, but didn't even have to block Quinn cause he was taken out of the play. So I wouldn't call that a double team. And I never said he wasn't "ever" double teamed. He just wasn't as much as alot of you make it out to be. Alot of posters maked it sound like he was doubled every play and that's not even close to being true. And the play where you said he rushed the QB, that was the play where Sturdivant caused the fumble, and I mentioned that it was the closest he got to Ponder.

Edit: Just want it made clear. Do I think Quinn could turn into an "elite" pass-rusher? Sure. But that can be said about almost anyone too. I have no problem with Quinn, in general, I just don't believe the hype that he's that great based off 1 good year where he dominated lower level competition. Had he gotten to play his Jr. Year and dominated against some top teams, I could see it having some merit, but as it stands right now, I don't think he's deserving of it.

Fair enough. I guess we'll just see how it turns out. I see a guy who has great physical tools and a guy who has a ton of room to improve. I think the suspension was a big mistake for him and he'll want to make up for it. I don't think his hype is even that big. If anything I think Von Miller is getting way overhyped.

I think both Quinn and Prince will be good players in the NFL but imo when you're taking a guy in the top 10 you have to walk away with one of the best at the position and not just a good player. I think Quinn has the potential and room to grow into one of the top rushers in the NFL while Prince will be a solid corner but not in the league of elite corners like Asomugha, Revis, Bailey, etc.

Hell arguable the best corner last year was Asante Samuel who was a 4th round pick if memory serves correctly.

I guess I'm just tired of not having a pass rusher. I'd love to draft Quinn then go full out to sign Aso.
Originally posted by FL9er:
KRS, man you are difficult, that's why you're my favorite poster here. It seems like everyone here is looking in absolutes, when it's not one over the other. My stance is you need both, but all else equal I'd take the pass rusher.

Going toward your examples along with PTulini's, that great Baltimore defense gave up 31 pts in a loss to Steelers. T Sizzle had 3 sacks and they still couldn't stop Pittsburgh? The previous year they couldn't stop Indy despite Reed's 2 INTs, although the offense was to blame for losing that game.

That same Giants defense that smacked Brady around in SB XLII is 2 years removed from giving up over 400 pts. They thought so much of that secondary that has difficulty matching up with Dallas/Philly in their own division that they went out and signed Antrel Rolle (a 1st rounder) to play in their secondary.

We'll see how great the CB play in Pittsburgh is, if they let Taylor walk, unless they sign Asomugha .


The 49ers goal should be higher than just building a team to get to the playoffs, but one that can win in the playoffs against better teams.

No way Pittsburgh signs Asomugha. When do they ever sign huge free agents. They are doing it the right way which is drafting well, then when free agency starts they are only worried about keeping guys in black and gold that they picked years ago. The ravens on the other hand I can see landing Asomugha.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by Travisty13:

How I do my scouting? Lol. Neither of us are "scouts" we're casual fans with our own observations. What makes your "scouting" better then mine? Cause you watched it on tv while I had to watch that same video posted on youtube? Its the same thing. I highly doubt your getting coaches film, going home and breaking down everyone game by game. I've watched him too and didn't see him get double teamed. My observation and my opinion is not going to change. He's a high risk player, that hasn't shown enough, to me, to warrant a high pick.

In the 2nd play that you mentioned, the guard had open protection, so swung to help, but didn't even have to block Quinn cause he was taken out of the play. So I wouldn't call that a double team. And I never said he wasn't "ever" double teamed. He just wasn't as much as alot of you make it out to be. Alot of posters maked it sound like he was doubled every play and that's not even close to being true. And the play where you said he rushed the QB, that was the play where Sturdivant caused the fumble, and I mentioned that it was the closest he got to Ponder.

Edit: Just want it made clear. Do I think Quinn could turn into an "elite" pass-rusher? Sure. But that can be said about almost anyone too. I have no problem with Quinn, in general, I just don't believe the hype that he's that great based off 1 good year where he dominated lower level competition. Had he gotten to play his Jr. Year and dominated against some top teams, I could see it having some merit, but as it stands right now, I don't think he's deserving of it.

Fair enough. I guess we'll just see how it turns out. I see a guy who has great physical tools and a guy who has a ton of room to improve. I think the suspension was a big mistake for him and he'll want to make up for it. I don't think his hype is even that big. If anything I think Von Miller is getting way overhyped.

I think both Quinn and Prince will be good players in the NFL but imo when you're taking a guy in the top 10 you have to walk away with one of the best at the position and not just a good player. I think Quinn has the potential and room to grow into one of the top rushers in the NFL while Prince will be a solid corner but not in the league of elite corners like Asomugha, Revis, Bailey, etc.

Hell arguable the best corner last year was Asante Samuel who was a 4th round pick if memory serves correctly.

I guess I'm just tired of not having a pass rusher. I'd love to draft Quinn then go full out to sign Aso.

See me and you differ on Prince. I absolutely believe he'll be elite.
I agree with you about not having a pass-rusher. I just don't believe Quinn is it. Kerrigan, Reed, Houston, Moch all I believe can be just as good and taken later with less risk. If we can come out of this draft with difference makers at CB and OLB, I'll be a happy guy. If Baalke believes Quinn is that guy at OLB, I'll support his decision. Just from my point of view, Quinn isn't the guy. But again, that's why we're not professional scouts.
doesn't sound like we want this guy at all
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
doesn't sound like we want this guy at all

Is that why they brought him in for a workout?

Did you talk to Baalke or Harbaugh on this?

Just because you're not hearing a rumour about him going to the 49ers doesn't mean they don't want him at all.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
doesn't sound like we want this guy at all

Is that why they brought him in for a workout?

Did you talk to Baalke or Harbaugh on this?

Just because you're not hearing a rumour about him going to the 49ers doesn't mean they don't want him at all.

And what about this?

Quote:
04/08/2011 - The 49ers sent their top two college talent evaluators, general manager Trent Baalke and college scouting director Joel Patten, to Chapel Hill, N.C. this past week. Their focus: a pass rusher. North Carolina has two good ones in the draft, Robert Quinn, whom the 49ers could take with the No. 7 overall pick, and Bruce Carter, who might be available in the second round. The 49ers also have an April visit scheduled with Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller, who many evaluators see as the most dangerous pass rusher in the draft. The bottom line: The 49ers desperately need someone who can put pressure on the quarterback. Miller had 27.5 sacks over the last two seasons and has elite flexibility and quickness. His combination of speed and tenacity appears to make him an ideal fit in Fangio's defense. However, Miller likely is coveted by at least two teams picking ahead of the 49ers - the Bills and Cardinals - and may not be available. If he's not, Quinn is an option. He and two teammates missed the 2010 season after accepting gifts - travel accommodations and jewelry - from an agent. He also has a benign brain tumor that will require monitoring by whichever team drafts him. Still, Quinn is intriguing to NFL teams because of his burst off the edge, rare for a 265-pound defender. And his showing at UNC's Pro Day suggests he can transition to outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. According to the school, Quinn ran his 40-yard dash in 4.57 seconds, had 24 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press, had a 33-inch vertical leap and had a long jump of 10 feet, 51/2 inches. Teammate Bruce Carter suffered a torn ACL in December and is likely to drop to the second round because of the injury. However, he, too, teems with potential and might be an option for the 49ers. - The Sports Xchange
Dont know why but I think with PP already gone Quinn is gonna be the pick.

Unless we trade down


I just feel it.