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Article -Why No Corner??

Originally posted by Walsh:
I would have loved grabbing a corner in the 2nd and couldn't understand why we didn't get one until I saw this article. That being said, I love the picks we did get. Mays is Ronnie Lott's favorite college safety and Bowman was once considered a first round pass rusher. Here's to long careers for these guys!




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=62009

Mighty tasty Koolaid, isn't it. When the buzz wears off we still won't have a TED to replace Spikes. We also won't have a coverage safety, or a tackler. We'll have a hitter. You see the difference between Ronnie and Taylor Mays is that Ronnie also
tackled and was a ball hawk.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by baltien:
Corner really isn't a pressing need for us anyway. People like to point to the ONE bad game Nate had (Atlanta) last year as evidence that he's done. It's rubbish. Corners get beat sometimes, it comes along with the territory. Darrell Revis got owned last year by Ted Ginn. I remember Champ Bailey getting thoroughly embarrassed before by Chad Johnson. Hell, even our own Michael Crabtree went up and got his first NFL TD against last year's defensive player of the year, Charles Woodson. And mind you Roddy White is not only one of the fastest players in the NFL, but he's one of the best at his position.

It's not like it was random bum out there schooling Nate. It happens.

So with a healthy Nate back in the lineup, Spencer and Brown can battle it out for the #2 position with the loser becoming the nickel back. So we can definitely can use more depth at CB, I think our starters are pretty much set.

And with the said, between Nate, Goldson, and Mays we have some serious HITTERS out there. I'm excited to see what these guys can do as a group.

The other thing the media is loving to do these days is talk about how Clements was "benched" because the 49ers thought they had better match ups against the Colts receivers with our other good corners.

As a result, we did an excellent job against the Colts receivers.

Our corners have shut down the top wide receivers in the league. Fans of course expect them to do it all day, every game, every series, and if they don't then we have "corner issues". They also expect our corners to cover every running back and TE, even if they are not assigned to cover them; that's asking a lot.

Just get an offense that stops going 3n'out all the time, and our corners will not only give up fewer yards to WR's (which they were very good at last year) but they will also "give up" fewer yards to running backs and TE's, who they aren't assigned to cover anyway.
Good stuff from both of you guys.

What we should take from this draft is that the staff BELIEVES in Clements, AND they are convinced that the very solid season from Spencer last year is something they can expect again. Also, they appear to have more confidence in Tarell Brown than national media who do not know anything about him. Hence, all the hype about "need a CB" has been a little overblown.

Or to put this another way, the CB options in the draft this year, either came up at a time the team saw greater need/value opportunities, OR the price they would have had to pay to move up was not worth what they would have sacrificed.

I still want to see affirmation that Brooks/Haralson and friends can get pressure, and we need the eventual replacement for Clements, but for now, I will settle for the guys we now have.
  • dj43
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[ Edited by dj43 on Apr 24, 2010 at 6:43 PM ]
I did not feel like CB is that big of a need, at least this year. Clements and Spencer are solid, and I would not see any rooks that were available to supplant either one... CB will probably be a major need next year, unless Clements shows that he is worth the money he is due in 2011...
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by Walsh:
I would have loved grabbing a corner in the 2nd and couldn't understand why we didn't get one until I saw this article. That being said, I love the picks we did get. Mays is Ronnie Lott's favorite college safety and Bowman was once considered a first round pass rusher. Here's to long careers for these guys!




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=62009

Mighty tasty Koolaid, isn't it. When the buzz wears off we still won't have a TED to replace Spikes. We also won't have a coverage safety, or a tackler. We'll have a hitter. You see the difference between Ronnie and Taylor Mays is that Ronnie also
tackled and was a ball hawk.

I don't understand it....but do most here not see Goldson as a ball hawk?.

what is seriously wrong with having Goldson at Free Safety and Mays at SS...

I'm sure Mays will eventually do a better job Covering than Micheal Lewis has done for us at the SS, if ever need be

but I agree with your other points... I don't understand the rest of the draft....I guess i'm ok with the Blocking TE pick....but a Big RB? again...(mind you I like his Youtube clips)....and not getting a true TED linebacker.

and I don't understand drafting that WRs....speedster sure, but we could have added to another position that is more needed.
Yeah the need was way overblown by national media types just taking a look at our pass def rankings and immediately assuming our CB's suck, when in reality the problem can be pretty much boiled down to sucking against screens (imo its a scheme weakness we'll have to live with) and struggles vs fast receivers...I guess you could Mays is a fast mofo and could run down Roddy White for example, unlike Mike Lewis.

We have 3 solid corners otherwise with Bly/Harris a phone call away. Probably have another year or two to find a replacement for Nate before his salary gets way out of proportion with his play on the field.
I was worried that if we picked a corner early we would release Clements
It just didn't work out. They had targetted Nate Allen in the 2nd (though they may've planned to plug him in at FS), but Philly jumped up and got him. With him gone, Mays must've had better value to the team than any available corners.

They tried, but it didn't work out. Don't be surprised if a FA move is made, but CB was a little more of a luxury upgrade compared to some of the other needs we addressed.
[ Edited by mug0mug on Apr 24, 2010 at 3:01 PM ]
Originally posted by baltien:
Corner really isn't a pressing need for us anyway. People like to point to the ONE bad game Nate had (Atlanta) last year as evidence that he's done. It's rubbish. Corners get beat sometimes, it comes along with the territory. Darrell Revis got owned last year by Ted Ginn. I remember Champ Bailey getting thoroughly embarrassed before by Chad Johnson. Hell, even our own Michael Crabtree went up and got his first NFL TD against last year's defensive player of the year, Charles Woodson. And mind you Roddy White is not only one of the fastest players in the NFL, but he's one of the best at his position.

It's not like it was random bum out there schooling Nate. It happens.

So with a healthy Nate back in the lineup, Spencer and Brown can battle it out for the #2 position with the loser becoming the nickel back. So we can definitely can use more depth at CB, I think our starters are pretty much set.

And with the said, between Nate, Goldson, and Mays we have some serious HITTERS out there. I'm excited to see what these guys can do as a group.

couldnt agree with you more good job friend!!
Originally posted by mug0mug:
It just didn't work out. They had targetted Nate Allen in the 2nd (though they may've planned to plug him in at FS), but Philly jumped up and got him. With him gone, Mays must've had better value to the team than any available corners.

They tried, but it didn't work out. Don't be surprised if a FA move is made, but CB was a little more of a luxury upgrade compared to some of the other needs we addressed.



Exactly... oh well.
Maybe next years draft or free agency.

Still a good draft in my opinion.

Go Niners!

Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by kray28:
I don't really watch the league much....I actually watched more this past season than the previous few (games not involving the 49ers, at least). Generally, I set aside a 2-3 hour block on fall Sunday afternoons for the 49ers. Frankly, I don't give a crap about any other team, and I'm not into fantasy football at all.

I'm an old school fan in many ways....I root for a team and its' players. I'm not a "football fan" and I don't really care about players that aren't 49ers.

Also, it's just getting older, having a family, and having a job that requires killer hours at times. I just can't sit around anymore and devote hours in front of the TV watching sports I don't really have any vested interest in.

Meaning . . . you've got some balance in your life? How dare you, man!
That's a concept foreign to many, but not lost on you apparently. Kudos!

On the subject of White and Clements: Yes, I understand that White is a pretty decent WR . . . but his day against Clements was the best he's had. Clements was supposed to be a shut down corner . . . he's not. To say that he just had an off day is flat wrong. Whenever called on to hold down his spot on an island, he gets burned. He had a similar performance against Dallas the year before. Brown is not the answer either.

To say that we don't need help at cornerback is a GROSS mis-assessment of the Niner's needs. Probably the Niner's greatest area of need. Someone who can play with the fast guys. And another who can play with the slots. The mordern day offense of the NFL has evolved into predominantly a passing attack. Speed, possession and the heavy participation of a slot receiver. The Nners need to keep up.

I have to respectfully disagree and I think you'll see next year. And quite personally, to me having 2 bad games over the course of the 3 years or so he's been here isn't that bad. TO, and Roddy White have abused a lot of corners. That's what GOOD receivers do. That's what makes them good. To say that he can't hold his own "on an island" (the basing that sentiment off two games) is a stretch.

I'm not saying he's the best in the league right now, but he still is pretty damn good. My point is simply even good corners get beat from time to time. It's a fact of life.

And the only "shut down" corner who ever played (and created that very term), was Deion Sanders. There are no other "shut down" corners.

And even Deion himself would get beat for long touchdowns from time to time.

Our fans expect an AWFUL LOT from our corners, and ignore the fact that they often shut down some of the best wide receivers/quarterbacks in the league.

Just stop the 3n'outs and everything will be rosy.

I agree somewhat. Our CB's unit is above average. But we should add a young speedy prospect. You can't have enough good DB's.

But in the niners and briango's defense, I think this was not the year for that.
First, this draft class was kinda s**tty in CB's. I don't recall a recent draft class where no CB's ran sub 4.4. This year, no DB at the combine ran sub 4.4. First time in a long time. There's some good decent prospects this year but still alot weaker compared to past drafts.

Bottomline: I think our CB's are good enough to play this upcoming. This is the one year where Nate's contract won't hurt the Niners due to no salary cap. If Alex Smith or whoever our QB is plays as good as we hope, then CB probably becomes our #1 target next year. Not sure about next year's group of CB's but I suspect they'll be better.

Hmmmm . . . hearing you guys discuss it, I could be wrong to be as dracionian in my criticism. As baltien says we'll see . . . and I sure hope he's right . . . I'll feel a lot better about it. Already do.

Still would have like to see them pick up a cover guy.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by Walsh:
I would have loved grabbing a corner in the 2nd and couldn't understand why we didn't get one until I saw this article. That being said, I love the picks we did get. Mays is Ronnie Lott's favorite college safety and Bowman was once considered a first round pass rusher. Here's to long careers for these guys!




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=62009

Mighty tasty Koolaid, isn't it. When the buzz wears off we still won't have a TED to replace Spikes. We also won't have a coverage safety, or a tackler. We'll have a hitter. You see the difference between Ronnie and Taylor Mays is that Ronnie also
tackled and was a ball hawk.

I don't understand it....but do most here not see Goldson as a ball hawk?.

what is seriously wrong with having Goldson at Free Safety and Mays at SS...

I'm sure Mays will eventually do a better job Covering than Micheal Lewis has done for us at the SS, if ever need be
That is what I have written in a couple other threads. Goldson did show an ability to ballhawk last year. His biggest mistakes were more rookie-type mistake of being overly aggressive than anything else.

I have never agree with the idea of moving Goldson to SS. He just is not big enough to take the pounding in the box. Now with Mays to pound the box it leaves Goldson to concentrate on cover and play calling. It isn't like Mays CAN'T cover. He just didn't seem to be called on to do it last year. With his tools, he should be able to learn the trade.

In summary, the 49ers have their "cover" safety and now drafted a hammer for SS. It results in two safeties that can pound guys and one who can cover. Add in the fact Clements is one of the best run support CBs in the league, and Spencer has always been a very good tackler, and you have a secondary that should be able to hurt some guys.
I thought we did draft a corner with our last pick? Phillip Adams from South Carolina State, 5-11, 192, from a smaller school but supposedly has good skills?
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by kray28:
I don't really watch the league much....I actually watched more this past season than the previous few (games not involving the 49ers, at least). Generally, I set aside a 2-3 hour block on fall Sunday afternoons for the 49ers. Frankly, I don't give a crap about any other team, and I'm not into fantasy football at all.

I'm an old school fan in many ways....I root for a team and its' players. I'm not a "football fan" and I don't really care about players that aren't 49ers.

Also, it's just getting older, having a family, and having a job that requires killer hours at times. I just can't sit around anymore and devote hours in front of the TV watching sports I don't really have any vested interest in.

Meaning . . . you've got some balance in your life? How dare you, man!
That's a concept foreign to many, but not lost on you apparently. Kudos!

On the subject of White and Clements: Yes, I understand that White is a pretty decent WR . . . but his day against Clements was the best he's had. Clements was supposed to be a shut down corner . . . he's not. To say that he just had an off day is flat wrong. Whenever called on to hold down his spot on an island, he gets burned. He had a similar performance against Dallas the year before. Brown is not the answer either.

To say that we don't need help at cornerback is a GROSS mis-assessment of the Niner's needs. Probably the Niner's greatest area of need. Someone who can play with the fast guys. And another who can play with the slots. The mordern day offense of the NFL has evolved into predominantly a passing attack. Speed, possession and the heavy participation of a slot receiver. The Nners need to keep up.

I have to respectfully disagree and I think you'll see next year. And quite personally, to me having 2 bad games over the course of the 3 years or so he's been here isn't that bad. TO, and Roddy White have abused a lot of corners. That's what GOOD receivers do. That's what makes them good. To say that he can't hold his own "on an island" (the basing that sentiment off two games) is a stretch.

I'm not saying he's the best in the league right now, but he still is pretty damn good. My point is simply even good corners get beat from time to time. It's a fact of life.

And the only "shut down" corner who ever played (and created that very term), was Deion Sanders. There are no other "shut down" corners.

And even Deion himself would get beat for long touchdowns from time to time.

Our fans expect an AWFUL LOT from our corners, and ignore the fact that they often shut down some of the best wide receivers/quarterbacks in the league.

Just stop the 3n'outs and everything will be rosy.

I agree somewhat. Our CB's unit is above average. But we should add a young speedy prospect. You can't have enough good DB's.

But in the niners and briango's defense, I think this was not the year for that.
First, this draft class was kinda s**tty in CB's. I don't recall a recent draft class where no CB's ran sub 4.4. This year, no DB at the combine ran sub 4.4. First time in a long time. There's some good decent prospects this year but still alot weaker compared to past drafts.

Bottomline: I think our CB's are good enough to play this upcoming. This is the one year where Nate's contract won't hurt the Niners due to no salary cap. If Alex Smith or whoever our QB is plays as good as we hope, then CB probably becomes our #1 target next year. Not sure about next year's group of CB's but I suspect they'll be better.

I agree.

The problem wasn't the defense was on the field too much and too long because we had one of the worst 3rd down conversion in the NFL. Sure we need to get better pressure.... but the defense can't be stellar when the offense doesn't do its part.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Apr 24, 2010 at 7:43 PM ]
  • Elric
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what do you mean we didn't draft a corner Mays is startingout at corner. Did you hear?
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