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How does Ted Ginn impact the draft board?

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I always make fun of this guy but honestly I think it's a good pickup. He can return kicks and punts and that's what we need. He also has good speed and if he can figure out how not to be a b***h and catch some passes, he could be a steal for us.

I know players bust, but this guy has made some plays in the NFL at the WR position. He just hasn't done it consistently due to his horrible drops.

Why do you make fun of him? He's one of the best return guys in the league. He has blazing speed. He can certainly be used on some go routes. He can get deep behind the coverage.

Well the drops he's had have been downright horrible. But like mayo said, a fresh start could be big for the Ginn family.

Also, I'm still wondering if we use him to return punts...he did it as a rookie but hasn't in the last 2 seasons. I really hope we do..

I don't like the idea of having to address PR and KR separately.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
All it tells you is we won't be taking a receiver until late in the draft at best or taking Spiller.

......or not taking a WR at all.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I think we're likely to draft a CB with PR skills now. Kyle Wilson could be the guy at #17, or a trade down from the second 1st rounder to grab someone like Devin McCourty.

I would love to get McCourty!
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I think we're likely to draft a CB with PR skills now. Kyle Wilson could be the guy at #17, or a trade down from the second 1st rounder to grab someone like Devin McCourty.

I would love to get McCourty!

I actually rank McCourty over Wilson. He's bigger, faster and alot better tackler. I can see a normal 8 yd pass turn into a 59 yd TD catch and run as Wilson dives at a receiver's feet and misses.

McCourty and Reshard Jones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I always make fun of this guy but honestly I think it's a good pickup. He can return kicks and punts and that's what we need. He also has good speed and if he can figure out how not to be a b***h and catch some passes, he could be a steal for us.

I know players bust, but this guy has made some plays in the NFL at the WR position. He just hasn't done it consistently due to his horrible drops.

Why do you make fun of him? He's one of the best return guys in the league. He has blazing speed. He can certainly be used on some go routes. He can get deep behind the coverage.

Well the drops he's had have been downright horrible. But like mayo said, a fresh start could be big for the Ginn family.

Also, I'm still wondering if we use him to return punts...he did it as a rookie but hasn't in the last 2 seasons. I really hope we do..

I don't like the idea of having to address PR and KR separately.

We probably do have to address them separately. Those are very different skills IMO. Different types of players are good at KR / PR. A PR is better off breaking lots of tackles as the coverage is on him quickly due to the high kick. A KR can build up "long speed" which Ted Ginn is good at if he has time to build up to that extra gear.
[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Apr 16, 2010 at 11:32 AM ]
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I always make fun of this guy but honestly I think it's a good pickup. He can return kicks and punts and that's what we need. He also has good speed and if he can figure out how not to be a b***h and catch some passes, he could be a steal for us.

I know players bust, but this guy has made some plays in the NFL at the WR position. He just hasn't done it consistently due to his horrible drops.

Why do you make fun of him? He's one of the best return guys in the league. He has blazing speed. He can certainly be used on some go routes. He can get deep behind the coverage.

Well the drops he's had have been downright horrible. But like mayo said, a fresh start could be big for the Ginn family.

Also, I'm still wondering if we use him to return punts...he did it as a rookie but hasn't in the last 2 seasons. I really hope we do..

I don't like the idea of having to address PR and KR separately.

We probably do have to address them separately. Those are very different skills IMO. Different types of players are good at KR / PR. A PR is better off breaking lots of tackles as the coverage is on him quickly due to the high kick. A KR can build up "long speed" which Ted Ginn is good at if he has time to build up to that extra gear.

Ditto.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.

Of course, that could be said about anyone. If we brought in a rookie who looked terrrible, fumbled the ball away and didn't break any big runs, he would be released too. But past production is generally a good indication of future production, especially for a 4th year player. Meaning, worse case, Ginn will very likely make an impact as a KR. It should go without saying that he would also be an upgrade as a PR since truthfully, ANYONE would be an upgrade from our PR production last year.

So, realistically speaking, Ginn will be on the roster unless he completely and totally melts down (but again, that goes for practically anyone on any NFL team, so that doesn't mean a whole lot).

Also, I do think we'll bring someone in who also has PR skills so all of those duties don't fall on Ginn's shoulders....but by and large, Ginn will be the main special teamer on this squad. I'd bet good money on that.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Apr 16, 2010 at 11:48 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.

Of course, that could be said about anyone. If we brought in a rookie who looked terrrible, fumbled the ball away and didn't break any big runs, he would be released too. But past production is generally a good indication of future production, especially for a 4th year player. Meaning, worse case, Ginn will very likely make an impact as a KR. It should go without saying that he would also be an upgrade as a PR since truthfully, ANYONE would be an upgrade from our PR production last year.

So, realistically speaking, Ginn will be on the roster unless he completely and totally melts down (but again, that goes for practically anyone on any NFL team, so that doesn't mean a whole lot).

Also, I do think we'll bring someone in who also has PR skills so all of those duties don't fall on Ginn's shoulders....but by and large, Ginn will be the main special teamer on this squad. I'd bet good money on that.

If we are to still look for a return man type of player in the draft, then we wouldn't have acquired Ginn and we are NOT about to stack the return position and pass up other needs.

The Ginn signing concerns me because it seems as though we are going to draft more for need over talent now. Personally, if Spiller or another talented skilled man drops, I don't think we should pass him up but the Ginn signing seems to point in one direction:

Meat and potatos 1st and 2nd round with a chance of an edge rusher.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.

Of course, that could be said about anyone. If we brought in a rookie who looked terrrible, fumbled the ball away and didn't break any big runs, he would be released too. But past production is generally a good indication of future production, especially for a 4th year player. Meaning, worse case, Ginn will very likely make an impact as a KR. It should go without saying that he would also be an upgrade as a PR since truthfully, ANYONE would be an upgrade from our PR production last year.

So, realistically speaking, Ginn will be on the roster unless he completely and totally melts down (but again, that goes for practically anyone on any NFL team, so that doesn't mean a whole lot).

Also, I do think we'll bring someone in who also has PR skills so all of those duties don't fall on Ginn's shoulders....but by and large, Ginn will be the main special teamer on this squad. I'd bet good money on that.

If we are to still look for a return man type of player in the draft, then we wouldn't have acquired Ginn and we are NOT about to stack the return position and pass up other needs.

The Ginn signing concerns me because it seems as though we are going to draft more for need over talent now. Personally, if Spiller or another talented skilled man drops, I don't think we should pass him up but the Ginn signing seems to point in one direction:

Meat and potatos 1st and 2nd round with a chance of an edge rusher.

1.) We don't have to use an early pick to bring in another player with return skills (you assumed I said/meant that....I didn't)
2.) Adding one more player with return skills isn't "stacking" the return position
3.) If Ginn gets hurt, and you have nobody else to return punts/kicks, we're screwed again (keep that mind)
4.) That's why I think we'll bring one more person in with return skills (later rounds are fine)...just makes sense to not put all your eggs on 1 basket
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Apr 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.

Of course, that could be said about anyone. If we brought in a rookie who looked terrrible, fumbled the ball away and didn't break any big runs, he would be released too. But past production is generally a good indication of future production, especially for a 4th year player. Meaning, worse case, Ginn will very likely make an impact as a KR. It should go without saying that he would also be an upgrade as a PR since truthfully, ANYONE would be an upgrade from our PR production last year.

So, realistically speaking, Ginn will be on the roster unless he completely and totally melts down (but again, that goes for practically anyone on any NFL team, so that doesn't mean a whole lot).

Also, I do think we'll bring someone in who also has PR skills so all of those duties don't fall on Ginn's shoulders....but by and large, Ginn will be the main special teamer on this squad. I'd bet good money on that.

If we are to still look for a return man type of player in the draft, then we wouldn't have acquired Ginn and we are NOT about to stack the return position and pass up other needs.

The Ginn signing concerns me because it seems as though we are going to draft more for need over talent now. Personally, if Spiller or another talented skilled man drops, I don't think we should pass him up but the Ginn signing seems to point in one direction:

Meat and potatos 1st and 2nd round with a chance of an edge rusher.

1.) We don't have to use an early pick to bring in another player with return skills (you assumed I said/meant that....I didn't)
2.) Adding one more player with return skills isn't "stacking" the return position
3.) If Ginn gets hurt, and you have nobody else to return punts/kicks, we're screwed again (keep that mind)

What I mean is that we will not draft a player specifically to return kicks. Having 2 return specialists is stacking considering the position. Also, I have a feeling coach doesn't want a 3rd down back. I think he would rather have an every down back. I actually woulnd't mind a Tackle and Guard with our picks in the first as the line is now the key to our success more than any other position. Smith has shown he can be, at the minimum, average. Give Gore a good line and he can definitely repeat 2006 with 2000+ total yards. The weapons to stretch the field, with Ginn are there.

Now if Gore gets hurt, a 3rd down back isn't going to help.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly I don't think it changes that much at the top of the draft. I would be very upset if the 49ers would pass on better overall talent early on because another lesser skilled player was a better return man.

I still expect us to look at return guys. Ginn's spot on the team is hardly a sure thing.

You're kidding, right? KR/PR is one of the biggest needs on this team, and that's what Ginn does well as proven NFL veteran. Unless he runs over one of Baalke's kids in the parking lot, Ginn is on the roster.

No I'm not kidding at all. He still needs to prove he can be of use on this team. We're not going to keep him on the roster because of stuff he DID. We're going to keep him on the roster because he can provide a spark in the return game.

Let's say he shows nothing at receiver and in preseason he looks terrible, fumbling the ball, not catching it cleanly not breaking any runs of 25+...are we still keeping him?

He cost us a 5th round pick. If the 49ers draft or bring in a guy who can show more...Ginn will be released.

Wouldn't be a first time a team traded for someone only to see someone beat them out in camp.

I'm not saying that's the case but to expect the 49ers to figure their return woes are fixed and not still try to get a backup plan is dumb.

Of course, that could be said about anyone. If we brought in a rookie who looked terrrible, fumbled the ball away and didn't break any big runs, he would be released too. But past production is generally a good indication of future production, especially for a 4th year player. Meaning, worse case, Ginn will very likely make an impact as a KR. It should go without saying that he would also be an upgrade as a PR since truthfully, ANYONE would be an upgrade from our PR production last year.

So, realistically speaking, Ginn will be on the roster unless he completely and totally melts down (but again, that goes for practically anyone on any NFL team, so that doesn't mean a whole lot).

Also, I do think we'll bring someone in who also has PR skills so all of those duties don't fall on Ginn's shoulders....but by and large, Ginn will be the main special teamer on this squad. I'd bet good money on that.

If we are to still look for a return man type of player in the draft, then we wouldn't have acquired Ginn and we are NOT about to stack the return position and pass up other needs.

The Ginn signing concerns me because it seems as though we are going to draft more for need over talent now. Personally, if Spiller or another talented skilled man drops, I don't think we should pass him up but the Ginn signing seems to point in one direction:

Meat and potatos 1st and 2nd round with a chance of an edge rusher.

1.) We don't have to use an early pick to bring in another player with return skills (you assumed I said/meant that....I didn't)
2.) Adding one more player with return skills isn't "stacking" the return position
3.) If Ginn gets hurt, and you have nobody else to return punts/kicks, we're screwed again (keep that mind)

What I mean is that we will not draft a player specifically to return kicks. Having 2 return specialists is stacking considering the position. Also, I have a feeling coach doesn't want a 3rd down back. I think he would rather have an every down back. I actually woulnd't mind a Tackle and Guard with our picks in the first as the line is now the key to our success more than any other position. Smith has shown he can be, at the minimum, average. Give Gore a good line and he can definitely repeat 2006 with 2000+ total yards. The weapons to stretch the field, with Ginn are there.

Now if Gore gets hurt, a 3rd down back isn't going to help.

You're making assumptions. Of course you don't draft a player now specifically to return kicks...that goes without saying. It could be a CB that needs a year of pro experience before taking on a starting role, but has punt return skills (like Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty or even Perrish Cox...could be a later round nickel-type CB like A.J. Jefferson or Javier Arenas, ). Their primary duty would be learning their position, but could add value when needed in the return game.
I don't think it changes anything at the top of the board. If you think they are not going to draft a guy (WR/RB/DB) they think could be a special PR/KR in the 2nd or 3rd rounds I say you're wrong. If that guy is still there at the top of their board they take him, Ginn or no Ginn.
Originally posted by Gavintech:
I don't think it changes anything at the top of the board. If you think they are not going to draft a guy (WR/RB/DB) they think could be a special PR/KR in the 2nd or 3rd rounds I say you're wrong. If that guy is still there at the top of their board they take him, Ginn or no Ginn.

I agree. I really think this changes some possible mid round picks.
Originally posted by dman:
I wanted Spiller but not anymore.

Id like to go Haden and Graham maybe in the first (not sure we should take a RT that early).

how sweet would it be if we got haden at 13. then traded our #17 and got a late first rounder and maybe early second and got say brandon graham late in the first and charles brown or another OT in the early 2nd. then maybe get a safety like reshad jones, nate allen or pick up jahvid best w/ our other 2rd?

i haven't really done my research to see who would have a late first rounder and an early 2rd pick. maybe the pats? just an idea. but that would be pretty freakin sweet. talk about addressing every major need in the first two rounds. holy crapola