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MadDog's 49ers Draft Board- Stacking the Board

I want Graham at 13!
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.

The bottom line has always been when Gore is out we suck, we need another option at RB. And having another returner on the team is never a bad idea.
If Spiller some how falls to 17, I still say we take him. A speed back to compliment Gores tough running style and I can't remember the last time Gore played 16 games in a season.

So taking Spiller at 17 would be great value, especially since he could eventually replace Gore. Gore has a lot of mileage on his surgically repaired tires.
Originally posted by jta854:
Hey MadDog, what is your specific reason for having Jason Pierre-Paul so low? I can think of two reasons he would be that low, 1) he only played one season, 2) He may be better in a 4-3. Did you have a different reason in mind, or was it a combination of a couple of reasons?

I think he would be great as a 3-4 OLB, but he has so little film I would drop his value, I just think that would put his value at ~13.

Very inexperienced, and dumb as a brick. Maybe the least intelligent player in the draft. I want our OLB's to be sharp.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jta854:
Hey MadDog, what is your specific reason for having Jason Pierre-Paul so low? I can think of two reasons he would be that low, 1) he only played one season, 2) He may be better in a 4-3. Did you have a different reason in mind, or was it a combination of a couple of reasons?

I think he would be great as a 3-4 OLB, but he has so little film I would drop his value, I just think that would put his value at ~13.

Very inexperienced, and dumb as a brick. Maybe the least intelligent player in the draft. I want our OLB's to be sharp.

Wow. I hadn't heard that. Is that coming form his wonderlic score, or rumors about his interviews?
  • GORO
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With Ginn on the team, I see him as the Kick Off Return Specialist. But the Niners are still in need of someone that returns punts.
What do you think MAD DOG
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.

The bottom line has always been when Gore is out we suck, we need another option at RB. And having another returner on the team is never a bad idea.

i agree but the way running backs are valued I would doubt they spend a 13 on Spiller. but his big play ability is something special. They probably feel by improving the o line that improves everybody including the back up rb's.
  • TX9R
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.

The bottom line has always been when Gore is out we suck, we need another option at RB. And having another returner on the team is never a bad idea.

i agree but the way running backs are valued I would doubt they spend a 13 on Spiller. but his big play ability is something special. They probably feel by improving the o line that improves everybody including the back up rb's.

Exactly like we have been saying all offseason Lamont.
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.

The bottom line has always been when Gore is out we suck, we need another option at RB. And having another returner on the team is never a bad idea.

i agree but the way running backs are valued I would doubt they spend a 13 on Spiller. but his big play ability is something special. They probably feel by improving the o line that improves everybody including the back up rb's.

Exactly like we have been saying all offseason Lamont.

Still doesn't solve the fact that when Gore is out we lose. And Ginn's ability to drop passes further increases the chances of Spiller lining up at WR as well.
  • TX9R
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Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by TX9R:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD we just got Ginn....is Spiller still a real possibility? (I think so)

I would assume his value has dropped for the team. Depending on how many carries they planned on splitting with Gore I think his main function would have been special teams. Just don't see the value of drafting him at 13 for spot duty. Though his spot duty should lead to some TD's. But if they want to split time and not just give Gore a compliment then they could still take him. It's about how they view him. I think they will end up with Bulaga and Graham or Bulaga and Wilson. If Earl Thomas is on the board at 13 then the Eagles will be calling unless the dolphins are calling them already trying to get there 2nd rounder back they just gave up for B Marsh.

The bottom line has always been when Gore is out we suck, we need another option at RB. And having another returner on the team is never a bad idea.

i agree but the way running backs are valued I would doubt they spend a 13 on Spiller. but his big play ability is something special. They probably feel by improving the o line that improves everybody including the back up rb's.

Exactly like we have been saying all offseason Lamont.

Still doesn't solve the fact that when Gore is out we lose. And Ginn's ability to drop passes further increases the chances of Spiller lining up at WR as well.

Not since he won't be on the team. McCluster would be better value if we even go that route.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jreff22:
As always MD

Surprised you have Spiller that high, I love the kid but I didn't think you thought that highly of him. Aside from Okung who is your favorite option for us at RT and are you still skeptical of A Davis? Surprised you are that high on Dex!! Do you think there is any chance that we wait for an OT till the 2nd. Having a Spiller/Haden/Graham possible combo in the 1st would be nasty. I just don't think we would risk passing on a much needed OT this year, especially with 2 1st rounders.

I'd move Staley to RT if Okung was drafted. But, with the other guys, I see strengths and weakness of each. Most are probably best suited for RT. Both Davis and Williams would be a tremendous upgrade. I'd rate them highest at RT, Williams over Davis (less bust potential, even though Davis may have a better upside).

However, none of the OT's are going to be on the board. I see the order shaking down like this:
Williams at 4
Okung at 5
Davis at 6
Campbell at 8
Bulaga at 9

So, either the Niners select Brown at 13, or hope that the Giants pass. I doubt we wait to the second round for an OT. Simply dealing with leftovers at this point, or jumbo-sized guys who will try to transition to RT (Ducasse, Jerry). And, these guys might be gone anyways. Saffold will be gone by the mid-20's. OT inflation.

Spiller and Bryant are explosive players, and the NFL is moving that direction. Plodding down the field is not a winning formula right now. And, the Niners need somebody who is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Spiller is that type of player.

Bryant runs the field like T.O., very angry. And, I like that rage. He's going to run over a LOT of DB's in the NFL.

Saffold is a guy that really intrigues me. This team really needs a RT who can be an upgrade to Snyder. I know that many people like Brown and Campbells upside, but when it comes to going head to head and winning that battle in the trenches, Saffold just seems like a better option to me.

Ideally, I'd love to see the Niners trade down a little from 17 and grab Saffold in the high 20's.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Nice work, Mad Dog. Couple of questions for you:

What are your thoughts on Charles Brown? Under the radar, LT only, fit for a zone blocking scheme only, etc.

What are your thoughts about Devin McCourty? IMO he fits the Niners mold perfectly with his size, speed and special teams ability. But where does he fit value wise?

I think Brown is the odds-on favorite to be the pick at 17, unless the Giants grab himat 15, or the Seahawks take Berry at 6 and then Brown at 14.

Brown has gained some weight to be in the 300-305 pound range, and can probably still stack on ten more pounds. He'll never be a 325 jumbo-sized guy like Davis. Brown has a lot in common with Staley: former TE's, guys who added weight to get to 300 pounds before the draft, both players flying under the radar until the end, and a solid pass protector who needs to work on the running game. Strikingly similar.

Brown played in a pro-style set at USC, and appears more than nimble enough to play in a zone scheme, or in our hybrid-style system (I'm not sure what direction our team will head in blocking schemes this year). Probably best at LT, but there is enough there to think that RT is not going to be an issue.

I have been a big fan of McCourty for some time. He presents late first, early second round value. Great size/speed combo, sensational footwork, hustle. He can play on an island. Excellent special teamer (probably top 5 in the draft) who will play nickle this year, and then start next year when Clements is released.

If the Niners do not draft Haden, Thomas, Wilson in the first round, then I think they target Owusu-Ansah in the second, especially with his return ability. He is a brilliant return man.

MD, I believe you said Williams will be the first tackle selected. I would have said, "No" a few months ago, but in looking at the Redskins and doing a little deeper background on them, they do not feel they need another left tackle, and many fans say the Okung pick wouldn't make any sense.

I say take the BPA, but I can indeed see Washington selecting Williams regardless because of his athleticism and the belief that, even though they would play him at RT, he could be a better left tackle in the future anyways than Okung.

I understand the 49ers have in fact conducted some scouting at the Indiana-Pennsylvania university, and surely hope that what they've seen in Akwasi will push them to select him in the 2nd. I say the 2nd, because I see zero indications that he will come anywhere near our 3rd rounder, who I still believe we are targeting Ricky Sapp for if he makes it there.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Apr 16, 2010 at 12:11 PM ]
I can only hope that either Trent Williams or Bryan Bulaga are available come pick #13. It seems like Bulaga's stock is falling slightly, while Williams' is rising rather dramatically.

I see either as being immediate starters at RT. Bulaga is a technician, though he has limited upside. Williams has experience AND a lot of talent, though I believe his success (or lack thereof) at LT SHOULD lower his value.

In my perfect world scenario, the 9ers select Bulaga at 13 and Iupati at 17, thus solidifying the O-line for the next 5 years. I see both as being immediate starters.

This would give you 3 pretty solid backups along the line, all with great versatility. Baas can play either G spot as well as Center. Snyder has the ability to play all positions but C while Sims can handle both T spots.

Staley, Iupati, Heitmann, Rachal, and Bulaga with Sims, Baas, and Snyder would be a pretty damn good line. This would then allow a BPA approach throughout the rest of the draft.

Also, with Ginn's acquisition, it alleviate any potential feeling of panic over finding a return man in the draft. I still believe we select a guy with legit return skills. You can't rely on 1 return man over the course of an entire season.
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jreff22:
As always MD

Surprised you have Spiller that high, I love the kid but I didn't think you thought that highly of him. Aside from Okung who is your favorite option for us at RT and are you still skeptical of A Davis? Surprised you are that high on Dex!! Do you think there is any chance that we wait for an OT till the 2nd. Having a Spiller/Haden/Graham possible combo in the 1st would be nasty. I just don't think we would risk passing on a much needed OT this year, especially with 2 1st rounders.

I'd move Staley to RT if Okung was drafted. But, with the other guys, I see strengths and weakness of each. Most are probably best suited for RT. Both Davis and Williams would be a tremendous upgrade. I'd rate them highest at RT, Williams over Davis (less bust potential, even though Davis may have a better upside).

However, none of the OT's are going to be on the board. I see the order shaking down like this:
Williams at 4
Okung at 5
Davis at 6
Campbell at 8
Bulaga at 9

So, either the Niners select Brown at 13, or hope that the Giants pass. I doubt we wait to the second round for an OT. Simply dealing with leftovers at this point, or jumbo-sized guys who will try to transition to RT (Ducasse, Jerry). And, these guys might be gone anyways. Saffold will be gone by the mid-20's. OT inflation.

Spiller and Bryant are explosive players, and the NFL is moving that direction. Plodding down the field is not a winning formula right now. And, the Niners need somebody who is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Spiller is that type of player.

Bryant runs the field like T.O., very angry. And, I like that rage. He's going to run over a LOT of DB's in the NFL.


Conversely, this is why I say you can never have enough CB/Cover Safety talent. The league is becoming a wide open, spread, home run league, and we definitely saw that last year several times where we just couldn't cover guys like C. Johnson, Owen Daniels, and Dallas Clark among others.

Hey I'd love to have one of these two offensive weapons, but we have to solve our ROT problem, and we also need depth and talent in our secondary.

One reason I really like the idea of Nate Allen is that he can really cover people. I agree that good corners and safeties are a must in a big play league.
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