Pass Rusher? Convince me.

While it's a nice to idea to get a "pure" pass rusher, I go back and forth as to whether or it would necessarily be so. - Hear me out for a minute. If we picked up Graham for example, and he is shown to be a good NFL pass rusher, would it put too much pressure on the other defenders to cover for this? Can Graham also drop back into coverage? If he can (or whichever perceived pass rusher specialist we draft can), well and good. But if he is a "one trick pony" - just a pass rusher, do we want that?

Opposing teams would be able to anticipate him - knowing that if he is in there is a very high liklihood that he is blitzing, and attack the hole that is created in the defense. If they know he can't drop into coverage very well, they can exploit that as well. I'm talking about good QB's and teams here - the ones we weren't able to sack last year.

I prefer having a defense (and I think Manusky does as well) where the Offense never is quite sure of what the defense is going to be doing. All the players can defend against the run, pass, and also pressure the QB.

Right now, our defense is pretty d@mn good. It's the Offense that needs to improve, both in big plays as well as sustained/possession type drives.

Spend the 2 firsts on Offensive players (unless 1 of the big name defenders falls), and I think the chances for an improved season are much greater.

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by Karma:

Originally posted by 9erred:
Justin Smith is a force, but if he is injured,the niners have no one to replace his every down motor.

Lawson is in the final years of his contract, and chances are he will not remain iwth the team.

The niners pass rush was invisible against winning teams, you need a pass rush to help out the DB's. I do not care if you have Berry and Joe Haden drafted, if the qb gets 5 seconds DB's are toast.

If OLB pass rusher is BPA and OT is not, you take BPA.

QB, LT (blind side for qb) shut down corners, and pass rush are the golden tickets in the NFL. The niners have Alex Smith, LT in Joe Staley, and Clements, so Pass rusher remains, you need a double digit sack master

1.) Justin Smith is a DE, not an OLB.

2.) Why is it likely that Lawson leaves? The 49ers have plenty of cap space (if a new CBA is reached), he is in a good position with the coaches, and he is on an up-and-coming team.

3.) Chicken or the egg. Which came first? We know we have good, young, improving OLBs. We know we have aging, slowing CBs. Which one should we upgrade?

4.) I do agree with BPA, I'm just not convinced that Graham, JPP, or Hughes will be the BPA. I could be wrong.

5.) The biggest myth is that if ONE guy isn't getting double digit sacks, then they don't have a pass rush. If they team is doing well, which they did this season, that's the meat and potatos. Now the way they IMPROVE on last year is to expand on the experience of the players in the system, not replace them with potential.

Depends on what Lawson's value will be and what he is looking for but the 49ers may have plenty of cap space next year but how much money will they have with Patrick Willis up for a new contract and with Vernon Davis, Dashon Goldson and Ahmad Brooks scheduled to be UFA's.

I say we go after Florida DE Jermaine Cunningham w/our 2nd or 3rd round pick because he is 6'3 and 250 pounds--the build of a prototypical pass-rusher,quick off the end he has been clocked as fast as 4.59 in the 40-yard dash while generally running between 4.60 and 4.70.He is a versatile weapon that can create mismatches across the line while offering the ability to drop back in to coverage on zone-blitzing packages.

Someone more informed on college players than I am, explain to me why Sergio Kindle wouldn't be a nice selection with the 17th pick. I have seen quite a few 'football people' say he is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Orakpo. Just curious about what some of you guys feel about him.

Originally posted by tommyncal:
Someone more informed on college players than I am, explain to me why Sergio Kindle wouldn't be a nice selection with the 17th pick. I have seen quite a few 'football people' say he is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Orakpo. Just curious about what some of you guys feel about him.

If you think this guy is a credible source, there's this:

# RT @Alexi_G: Sergio Kindle is not a pass-rusher, a blitzer if i understand?>> that is correct


I really don't know a lot about Kindle


and Karma, maybe if you watched some of the games again and paid close attention to the pass rush then that might convince you. It's easy to look at the stats at the end of the season, it's another to see how things went down during a game. Maybe you change your mind, maybe you don't.

[ Edited by teeohh on Mar 28, 2010 at 19:49:23 ]

From my perspective, the Niners can take two approaches to upgrade their pass rush.

1) Get more pass rushers
2) Improve their passing defense

Coverage sacks count just like straight pressure. Getting a CB who can return kicks would be a 3-1 upgrade as it would improve pass rush, pass defense, and the return games.

Originally posted by socal9er42:
While it's a nice to idea to get a "pure" pass rusher, I go back and forth as to whether or it would necessarily be so. - Hear me out for a minute. If we picked up Graham for example, and he is shown to be a good NFL pass rusher, would it put too much pressure on the other defenders to cover for this? Can Graham also drop back into coverage? If he can (or whichever perceived pass rusher specialist we draft can), well and good. But if he is a "one trick pony" - just a pass rusher, do we want that?

Opposing teams would be able to anticipate him - knowing that if he is in there is a very high liklihood that he is blitzing, and attack the hole that is created in the defense. If they know he can't drop into coverage very well, they can exploit that as well. I'm talking about good QB's and teams here - the ones we weren't able to sack last year.

I prefer having a defense (and I think Manusky does as well) where the Offense never is quite sure of what the defense is going to be doing. All the players can defend against the run, pass, and also pressure the QB.

Right now, our defense is pretty d@mn good. It's the Offense that needs to improve, both in big plays as well as sustained/possession type drives.

Spend the 2 firsts on Offensive players (unless 1 of the big name defenders falls), and I think the chances for an improved season are much greater.

My 2 cents.

If you are looking at whether or not Graham has any value as a "pure" pass rusher, all you have to look at is his former teammate Lamar Woodley. Woodley did not have the ideal measureables for a 3-4 OLB (.....neither does James Harrison for that matter) and they questioned his ability to cover. He seems to be just fine in the Steelers 3-4 scheme. Graham could be just as good for the Niners.

If you also go by Graham's performance this year, he did just fine even though he was double-teamed all year long by the opposition. 10.5 sacks and 26 TFL to lead the nation this year sounds good enough for me.

i also remember more than a few scaks last year due to good coverage in the secondary, could be good scheme or good secondary play or whatever, but it certainly didnt mean we were gettin to the qb quickly. like do any of our outside pash rushers have a go to move? i keep seeing lawson trying to do a speed rush around the end that never works, hes 6-5 try a bull rush and knock down the pass if u dont get there.

We had a pass rush. We had 3-4 less sacks than Minnesota did. Now we all would like the pass rush that Minnesota had. Most of their sacks came through J. Allen but ours was spread out over the whole team. We got three Sacks against Indiannapolis and 6+ against Arizona. We did not get a lot of sacks against specific teams - Philly, Houston, Atlanta, Tenessee. It would be nice to have an ideal pass rush but no one had an ideal pass rush. If Minnesota is close to an ideal pass rush we were 3-4 sacks away from an ideal pass rush.

I would like Graham or Hughes for our team because they are good players. Baalke/Singletary have to decide whether we can get more out of the team with Brooks and Haralson and Lawson and Willis having another year under their belt, or if Sop/Balmer can generate more pass rush from the left side of the Dline, or if we can get 3 more coverage sacks if we draft a couple of quality backfield players.

In any case I think we need another OLB and we need more speed in the backfield and we need the offense to be able to use up some time and score points. If we can improve on these three areas we will be moving up into the next level of quality.

I still say we snatch Graham at #13 unless someone falls into our lap (Haden), or if the team feels they can pick a player at 13 (Spiller or OT) and still get Graham at #17.

I would be sick to my stomach though if they select an OT at #17 (A. Davis, Campbell, or whoever) and passed up on Graham.

Graham >>> Any 4th Rated Tackle on the Board!!!! PERIOD![/indent]

Originally posted by tommyncal:
Someone more informed on college players than I am, explain to me why Sergio Kindle wouldn't be a nice selection with the 17th pick. I have seen quite a few 'football people' say he is more athletic and has a higher ceiling than Orakpo. Just curious about what some of you guys feel about him.

From what I understand, Kindle's athleticism is unquestioned, but his instincts and bulk leave something to be desired. He tends to over run tackles or get lost in a crowd.

Originally posted by BigBug415:
I still say we snatch Graham at #13 unless someone falls into our lap (Haden), or if the team feels they can pick a player at 13 (Spiller or OT) and still get Graham at #17.

I would be sick to my stomach though if they select an OT at #17 (A. Davis, Campbell, or whoever) and passed up on Graham.

Graham >>> Any 4th Rated Tackle on the Board!!!! PERIOD![/indent]

I disagree vehemently. Increasing our pass rush isn't nearly as important as protecting our own QB. In this scenario, I assume the 4th rated OT is Anthony Davis (after Okung, Bulaga, and Williams). Davis has issues, and I am not saying that we should definitely grab him, but if Singeltary thinks he can motivate this young man, his talent is at least equal to Graham's.

I was shocked when we ended up tied for 3rd in sacks. Seemed like we either got a sack or else gave the QB about 3 days to make a pass. Adding a Graham to the team would hopefully provide a more consistent rush.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
I was shocked when we ended up tied for 3rd in sacks. Seemed like we either got a sack or else gave the QB about 3 days to make a pass. Adding a Graham to the team would hopefully provide a more consistent rush.

Key concept is hopefully. All draft picks are high risk - 1st rounders are about 50% successful and every round after that it gets more risky. But Graham seems about as close to a real player as this draft has to offer.