There are 50 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Pass Rusher? Convince me.

  • Karma
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 685
I am a regular viewer of this forum and an occasional poster, and I have noticed quite a few people clamoring for us to draft Graham, JPP, or Hughes in the first round. I know many of you are not enamored with our current OLBs, but the team is getting the job done. The 49ers tied for third in sack totals last year while remaining staunch against the run. Additionally, we have two players entering the last year of their contracts in Lawson and Brooks. Lawson might not have been a dominant pass rusher, but he did lead the team in sacks. He also plays the run extremely well, is an above average coverage linebacker, and is improving after a devastating injury and a subsequent banishment to the bench by Nolan. Brooks played his way onto the field (finally) and looked dominant at the end of the season. The last thing we need is to draft a guy that keeps one or both of these guys on the sidelines. What happens when they sign with another team after this season and end up being the player we wanted in the first place?

I agree that pass rushers are essential to success, but let's develop what we have before throwing in the towel. Haralson, Lawson, and Brooks are starting to come into their own and Briggs showed enough promise to warrant a promotion to protect him. I'm fine with drafting a guy late, such as Alex Daniels from Cincinnati, that we can develop. Let's use the first few rounds to take care of the bigger problems: OT, OG, CB, KR/PR, and S.
we had 44 sacks, but nobody with more than 6.5, we also did quite a bit of blitzing to get those sacks. u can also never have too many good pash rushers for example, joey porter had over 30 sacks in 3 yrs in miami and lots of people wanted to niners to go get him, but i can tell u that the reason pittsburgh let him go to miami is cus they knew they had james harrison behind him. i am not saying pick graham in round one, but stock piling pass rushers is not a bid thing. i mean what if brooks or lawson have a double digit sack season, good luck gettin them to re-sign with the more important players we have that need contracts
Yes Ahmad Brooks played very well the last 4-5 games when he got a chance to play more but he did struggle against a top flight OT in Jason Peters when we played at Philly and he still has a ways to go and will likely be an UFA in 2011. Parys Haralson is a solid pass rusher, nothing special and would be better suited to be a backup. Manny Lawson does everything really well except rush the passer and he will be an UFA next year. I like Diyral Briggs but he has a ways to go.

So it would be hard to turn down a Brandon Graham at 17 and guys like Ricky Sapp, Koa Misi and Jason Worlids deserve a look in rd 2 and if Jerry Hughes drops like I think he will, he would be a great pick in rd 2
Originally posted by crabman82:
we had 44 sacks, but nobody with more than 6.5, we also did quite a bit of blitzing to get those sacks. u can also never have too many good pash rushers for example, joey porter had over 30 sacks in 3 yrs in miami and lots of people wanted to niners to go get him, but i can tell u that the reason pittsburgh let him go to miami is cus they knew they had james harrison behind him. i am not saying pick graham in round one, but stock piling pass rushers is not a bid thing. i mean what if brooks or lawson have a double digit sack season, good luck gettin them to re-sign with the more important players we have that need contracts



Good point(s) and a lot of pressure was due to scheming by Greg Manusky which he is good at but when we played the better teams (O-Lines) (Philly, Atlanta, Green Bay) we really struggled to get a good, CONSISTENT pass rush.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,917
If you look at the final team numbers then yea you could come out impressed. If you watched the games you'd notice that it wasn't consistent pressure. 6.5 sacks from your team leader just isn't cutting it. We need a guy who s going to get consistent pressure on the QB. Guys teams have to game plan against and look to see where he is at all times. Brandon Graham looks every bit like that guy.

You're worrying about losing one of Brooks or Lawson to the bench. I look at it as having a better 3rd down defense. Having Lawson or Brooks slide inside on passing downs and bringing an aging Spikes out.

Graham-Smith-Franklin-Brooks or Lawson 4 down lineman. Willis and Lawson or Brooks at LB in the nickel package greatly enhance our defense on the most critical down. I won't even get into the whole depth/injury argument.
Keyword from krizays post: CONSISTENCY
  • Karma
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 685
Alright, I'm getting good, logical arguments. SOme repsonses:

1.) Several people have talked about Manusky's schemes. This is not a negative for our pass rushers. This just means that Manusky is good at his job. The key to a good pass rush is deception. If you know the same guy is coming, it can be stopped. If you don't know where the rush is coming from, the defense has the upper hand. Manusky demands that his players do everything well, so his OLB need to be able to cover, play to their assignments in the run, and sometimes occupy blockers for others. In his first year with FULL control of the defense, they improved dramatically.

2.) Many said that we do not get consistent pressure against good teams. Well, they are good teams for a reason, but I do seem to remember Peyton Manning on his butt more than he had been all season. As for the other games, the problem was coming in our secondary. The opposing QBs (Favre, McNabb, Schaub) were finding open receivers too quickly. I don't care if we clone Reggie White and Bruce Smith in their primes, if we can't cover for three seconds, the QB will have a field day.

3.) Yes, Lawson only had 6.5 sacks. Yes, Lawson leaves something to be desired as a pure pass rusher. Yes, Brooks only did his damage in a few games. These are steps taken by teams and players on the rise. The season before Lawson was relegated to ST duties. Brooks had even been activated. I, for one, can't wait to see what they do to improve next year, which they will if we let them see the field with their experience and knowledge of an obviously effective defensive scheme.

4.) No matter how you slice it, one of our main guys from last year will lose playing time to a first round pass rusher. Spikes already comes out on most passing situations.

[ Edited by Karma on Mar 28, 2010 at 13:38:52 ]
If the BPA is a pass rusher, take him. If not, pass rush isn't as big of a need as it once was.

No need to reach for one.
  • Karma
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 685
Originally posted by Schulzy:
If the BPA is a pass rusher, take him. If not, pass rush isn't as big of a need as it once was.

No need to reach for one.

That is true enough. I was certainly concerned about Crabtree last year; but that has worked out pretty well.
Justin Smith is a force, but if he is injured,the niners have no one to replace his every down motor.

Lawson is in the final years of his contract, and chances are he will not remain iwth the team.

The niners pass rush was invisible against winning teams, you need a pass rush to help out the DB's. I do not care if you have Berry and Joe Haden drafted, if the qb gets 5 seconds DB's are toast.

If OLB pass rusher is BPA and OT is not, you take BPA.

QB, LT (blind side for qb) shut down corners, and pass rush are the golden tickets in the NFL. The niners have Alex Smith, LT in Joe Staley, and Clements, so Pass rusher remains, you need a double digit sack master
Originally posted by Karma:
I am a regular viewer of this forum and an occasional poster, and I have noticed quite a few people clamoring for us to draft Graham, JPP, or Hughes in the first round. I know many of you are not enamored with our current OLBs, but the team is getting the job done. The 49ers tied for third in sack totals last year while remaining staunch against the run. Additionally, we have two players entering the last year of their contracts in Lawson and Brooks. Lawson might not have been a dominant pass rusher, but he did lead the team in sacks. He also plays the run extremely well, is an above average coverage linebacker, and is improving after a devastating injury and a subsequent banishment to the bench by Nolan. Brooks played his way onto the field (finally) and looked dominant at the end of the season. The last thing we need is to draft a guy that keeps one or both of these guys on the sidelines. What happens when they sign with another team after this season and end up being the player we wanted in the first place?

I agree that pass rushers are essential to success, but let's develop what we have before throwing in the towel. Haralson, Lawson, and Brooks are starting to come into their own and Briggs showed enough promise to warrant a promotion to protect him. I'm fine with drafting a guy late, such as Alex Daniels from Cincinnati, that we can develop. Let's use the first few rounds to take care of the bigger problems: OT, OG, CB, KR/PR, and S.

I agree; OLB is need #4 after OT, DB, and KR/PR
  • Karma
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 685
Originally posted by 9erred:
Justin Smith is a force, but if he is injured,the niners have no one to replace his every down motor.

Lawson is in the final years of his contract, and chances are he will not remain iwth the team.

The niners pass rush was invisible against winning teams, you need a pass rush to help out the DB's. I do not care if you have Berry and Joe Haden drafted, if the qb gets 5 seconds DB's are toast.

If OLB pass rusher is BPA and OT is not, you take BPA.

QB, LT (blind side for qb) shut down corners, and pass rush are the golden tickets in the NFL. The niners have Alex Smith, LT in Joe Staley, and Clements, so Pass rusher remains, you need a double digit sack master

1.) Justin Smith is a DE, not an OLB.

2.) Why is it likely that Lawson leaves? The 49ers have plenty of cap space (if a new CBA is reached), he is in a good position with the coaches, and he is on an up-and-coming team.

3.) Chicken or the egg. Which came first? We know we have good, young, improving OLBs. We know we have aging, slowing CBs. Which one should we upgrade?

4.) I do agree with BPA, I'm just not convinced that Graham, JPP, or Hughes will be the BPA. I could be wrong.

5.) The biggest myth is that if ONE guy isn't getting double digit sacks, then they don't have a pass rush. If they team is doing well, which they did this season, that's the meat and potatos. Now the way they IMPROVE on last year is to expand on the experience of the players in the system, not replace them with potential.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Justin Smith is a force, but if he is injured,the niners have no one to replace his every down motor.

Lawson is in the final years of his contract, and chances are he will not remain iwth the team.

The niners pass rush was invisible against winning teams, you need a pass rush to help out the DB's. I do not care if you have Berry and Joe Haden drafted, if the qb gets 5 seconds DB's are toast.

If OLB pass rusher is BPA and OT is not, you take BPA.

QB, LT (blind side for qb) shut down corners, and pass rush are the golden tickets in the NFL. The niners have Alex Smith, LT in Joe Staley, and Clements, so Pass rusher remains, you need a double digit sack master

Chances are Lawson wont be back? do you just pull this info out of thin air?
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by crabman82:
we had 44 sacks, but nobody with more than 6.5, we also did quite a bit of blitzing to get those sacks. u can also never have too many good pash rushers for example, joey porter had over 30 sacks in 3 yrs in miami and lots of people wanted to niners to go get him, but i can tell u that the reason pittsburgh let him go to miami is cus they knew they had james harrison behind him. i am not saying pick graham in round one, but stock piling pass rushers is not a bid thing. i mean what if brooks or lawson have a double digit sack season, good luck gettin them to re-sign with the more important players we have that need contracts



Good point(s) and a lot of pressure was due to scheming by Greg Manusky which he is good at but when we played the better teams (O-Lines) (Philly, Atlanta, Green Bay) we really struggled to get a good, CONSISTENT pass rush.

All very true, but where we really struggled with consistentcy was on offense. It helped a lot when Crabtree showed up but we still need another playmaker on offense. And of course everyone knows the OL needs help. If a decent pass rusher is the best player on the board when we draft I'd be fine with taking one. That would be great. We have to have some help on offense though.
I wouldn't be mad if we took Brandon Graham. He would help our defense get off the field on more third downs.
Search Podcast Draft Forum Commentary News Shop Home