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OTC's 49er Board: Draft Cheatsheet.

OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?

I absolutely think he is worth the 17th pick. And that's based on his talents, abilities, and upside alone. Expectations are that once the top three tackles go, Brown and the rest will have inflationary value, so that even further makes him a hot target for the 17th pick. He has to be one of the 49ers considerations right now.

As for the CB's. I don't think any of them are really top 20 worthy. They might go there because a team reaches for need, but on talent alone, while they're all first rounders -- they're the late kind. I consider all of them worthy of being selected 21st or later, and I would not use the 17th pick on any of them.

Jackson is the only one of the three that would really be a fit in the system, but I imagine we want a CB with return ability. McCourty and Wilson have that, Jackson doesn't. He's a pretty good bump and run corner, but he doesn't get his head back to look for the ball. Not only will this lead to a lot of Pass Interference calls in the NFL, he won't be making plays when he should because he's not looking for the ball. You can see this point backed up by the fact that Jackson has had a grand total of 1 INT in each of the past two seasons. I don't think he'll be drafted in the first round.

Back to Brown: I have the 49ers taking him in my new mock -- http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140218
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?

I absolutely think he is worth the 17th pick. And that's based on his talents, abilities, and upside alone. Expectations are that once the top three tackles go, Brown and the rest will have inflationary value, so that even further makes him a hot target for the 17th pick. He has to be one of the 49ers considerations right now.

As for the CB's. I don't think any of them are really top 20 worthy. They might go there because a team reaches for need, but on talent alone, while they're all first rounders -- they're the late kind. I consider all of them worthy of being selected 21st or later, and I would not use the 17th pick on any of them.

Jackson is the only one of the three that would really be a fit in the system, but I imagine we want a CB with return ability. McCourty and Wilson have that, Jackson doesn't. He's a pretty good bump and run corner, but he doesn't get his head back to look for the ball. Not only will this lead to a lot of Pass Interference calls in the NFL, he won't be making plays when he should because he's not looking for the ball. You can see this point backed up by the fact that Jackson has had a grand total of 1 INT in each of the past two seasons. I don't think he'll be drafted in the first round.

Back to Brown: I have the 49ers taking him in my new mock -- http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140218

Thanks OTC, appreciate the feedback.

I like Brown, wasnt sure if he was worthy of pick 17, it just seemed high, but their is always a players or 2 who rise and rise up the boards come draft day.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Good to see where you have Brown rated, I think he is the 3rd best OT and will probably be the pick at 17.

u place him above Williams?

I have him as 3rd best too. But not above Williams.... Above Bulaga.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?

I absolutely think he is worth the 17th pick. And that's based on his talents, abilities, and upside alone. Expectations are that once the top three tackles go, Brown and the rest will have inflationary value, so that even further makes him a hot target for the 17th pick. He has to be one of the 49ers considerations right now.

As for the CB's. I don't think any of them are really top 20 worthy. They might go there because a team reaches for need, but on talent alone, while they're all first rounders -- they're the late kind. I consider all of them worthy of being selected 21st or later, and I would not use the 17th pick on any of them.

Jackson is the only one of the three that would really be a fit in the system, but I imagine we want a CB with return ability. McCourty and Wilson have that, Jackson doesn't. He's a pretty good bump and run corner, but he doesn't get his head back to look for the ball. Not only will this lead to a lot of Pass Interference calls in the NFL, he won't be making plays when he should because he's not looking for the ball. You can see this point backed up by the fact that Jackson has had a grand total of 1 INT in each of the past two seasons. I don't think he'll be drafted in the first round.

Back to Brown: I have the 49ers taking him in my new mock -- http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140218

Thanks OTC, appreciate the feedback.

I like Brown, wasnt sure if he was worthy of pick 17, it just seemed high, but their is always a players or 2 who rise and rise up the boards come draft day.

Looks like Al Woods of LSU could be another one of those players.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?

I absolutely think he is worth the 17th pick. And that's based on his talents, abilities, and upside alone. Expectations are that once the top three tackles go, Brown and the rest will have inflationary value, so that even further makes him a hot target for the 17th pick. He has to be one of the 49ers considerations right now.

As for the CB's. I don't think any of them are really top 20 worthy. They might go there because a team reaches for need, but on talent alone, while they're all first rounders -- they're the late kind. I consider all of them worthy of being selected 21st or later, and I would not use the 17th pick on any of them.

Jackson is the only one of the three that would really be a fit in the system, but I imagine we want a CB with return ability. McCourty and Wilson have that, Jackson doesn't. He's a pretty good bump and run corner, but he doesn't get his head back to look for the ball. Not only will this lead to a lot of Pass Interference calls in the NFL, he won't be making plays when he should because he's not looking for the ball. You can see this point backed up by the fact that Jackson has had a grand total of 1 INT in each of the past two seasons. I don't think he'll be drafted in the first round.

Back to Brown: I have the 49ers taking him in my new mock -- http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140218

Thanks OTC, appreciate the feedback.

I like Brown, wasnt sure if he was worthy of pick 17, it just seemed high, but their is always a players or 2 who rise and rise up the boards come draft day.

Looks like Al Woods of LSU could be another one of those players.

I remember him, he was rated really high, then fell, now is rising again. What position at the next level in your opinion OTC? NT, DT or DE?
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
OTC what do you make of Charles Brown you think he might be worthy of the 17th pick? And what about taking a CB like McCourty, Wilson or Jackson in rd 1?

I absolutely think he is worth the 17th pick. And that's based on his talents, abilities, and upside alone. Expectations are that once the top three tackles go, Brown and the rest will have inflationary value, so that even further makes him a hot target for the 17th pick. He has to be one of the 49ers considerations right now.

As for the CB's. I don't think any of them are really top 20 worthy. They might go there because a team reaches for need, but on talent alone, while they're all first rounders -- they're the late kind. I consider all of them worthy of being selected 21st or later, and I would not use the 17th pick on any of them.

Jackson is the only one of the three that would really be a fit in the system, but I imagine we want a CB with return ability. McCourty and Wilson have that, Jackson doesn't. He's a pretty good bump and run corner, but he doesn't get his head back to look for the ball. Not only will this lead to a lot of Pass Interference calls in the NFL, he won't be making plays when he should because he's not looking for the ball. You can see this point backed up by the fact that Jackson has had a grand total of 1 INT in each of the past two seasons. I don't think he'll be drafted in the first round.

Back to Brown: I have the 49ers taking him in my new mock -- http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140218

Thanks OTC, appreciate the feedback.

I like Brown, wasnt sure if he was worthy of pick 17, it just seemed high, but their is always a players or 2 who rise and rise up the boards come draft day.

Looks like Al Woods of LSU could be another one of those players.

I remember him, he was rated really high, then fell, now is rising again. What position at the next level in your opinion OTC? NT, DT or DE?

He could easily play either NT or DE. Good tweener.
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Apr 11, 2010 at 9:53 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.

He makes a lot of long catches, evidencing he knows how to use his size to his advantage, but Thomas drops a lot of easy ones. That concerns me. If he's that fast, I'd probably bump him up a little. But there's a lot more that goes into evaluating these guys.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.
Georgia Tech wasn't a passing offense yet he still put up big numbers. He has crazy athletisism but he hasn't had the chance to show that he can run routes. To me, he is a late 1st round pick.
Originally posted by Draftology:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.
Georgia Tech wasn't a passing offense yet he still put up big numbers. He has crazy athletisism but he hasn't had the chance to show that he can run routes. To me, he is a late 1st round pick.

I think Thomas is like a somewhat more glorified Marcus Easley. Perhaps a bit more physical, but compare the two.

Easley, 6-3 210, is definitely on a run first team at UConn. Easley came on the scene this year and had 893 yards and 8 TDs in 10 games, including five 100 yard games, that he each scored in. 89.3 yards per game average. He had 4 catches for 40 yards in their bowl game against South Carolina.

His workout numbers were...
40 Yard Dash: 4.39
Vertical: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.60
3-Cone Drill: 6.94

No character or durability concerns.

Thomas is 6-3 224, and put up 1154 yards and 8 TDs in 14 games. 82.4 yards per game. He was shut out in GT's bowl game against Iowa.

No workout numbers for Thomas.

No character concerns, but with the broken foot, that'll bring up some questions about how that will affect his speed, etc.

Other issues for Thomas:
-Not a polished route runner at all.
-Improved in blocking, but still inconsistent.
-Can struggle to separate from bigger defensive backs.

Extremely raw, had one good year, and relied mainly on athleticism at the college level. Thomas and Easley, a likely 3rd round pick or later, will probably take the same time to develop. This is why he shouldn't be a first rounder.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Apr 12, 2010 at 2:30 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.
Georgia Tech wasn't a passing offense yet he still put up big numbers. He has crazy athletisism but he hasn't had the chance to show that he can run routes. To me, he is a late 1st round pick.

I think Thomas is like a somewhat more glorified Marcus Easley. Perhaps a bit more physical, but compare the two.

Easley, 6-3 210, is definitely on a run first team at UConn. Easley came on the scene this year and had 893 yards and 8 TDs in 10 games, including five 100 yard games, that he each scored in. 89.3 yards per game average. He had 4 catches for 40 yards in their bowl game against South Carolina.

His workout numbers were...
40 Yard Dash: 4.39
Vertical: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.60
3-Cone Drill: 6.94

No character or durability concerns.

Thomas is 6-3 224, and put up 1154 yards and 8 TDs in 14 games. 82.4 yards per game. He was shut out in GT's bowl game against Iowa.

No workout numbers for Thomas.

No character concerns, but with the broken foot, that'll bring up some questions about how that will affect his speed, etc.

Other issues for Thomas:
-Not a polished route runner at all.
-Improved in blocking, but still inconsistent.
-Can struggle to separate from bigger defensive backs.

Extremely raw, had one good year, and relied mainly on athleticism at the college level. Thomas and Easley, a likely 3rd round pick or later, will probably take the same time to develop. This is why he shouldn't be a first rounder.
You are comparing numbers, not play. Thomas' numbers this year are better than Calvin Johnson's first two seasons, and they went to the same school. Yes, Johnson had two very good years and one monster year and Thomas only had two decent years and one great year, but Johnson was the #2 pick. Thomas' height and weight are similar to Johnson's and his 40 probably would have been within .1. Potential alone puts him in the end of the first round and I wouldn't be surprised if a team eyeing Dez Bryant takes Thomas in the late teens or early twenties if Bryant is gone.
Originally posted by Draftology:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Draftology:
demaryious thomas should be waaaaaaaaaaaay higher. imo he is the #2 receiver.

He's done nothing to deserve such a grade. One decent year does not equate to #2 status. Thomas is very raw, and not NFL ready. I peg Thomas as one of the highest bust-factor receivers in this draft. Very risky pick, especially now with the injury and no workout numbers.

Thomas possesses a high ceiling of potential, because he's a smart kid and an improved blocker now, but also possess little substance to warrant a 1st round grade. I grade him as a late 2nd rounder because of these reasons in addition to what I've listed above.

Yeah he could be a bust, but he could absolutely be a home run too. Look at how athletic he is, supposedly he ran a videotaped 4.38 according to SI before his injury. Look at his yards per catch, look at that like 25 YPC? That's nuts. To be honest with you I think he's going to be really good.
Georgia Tech wasn't a passing offense yet he still put up big numbers. He has crazy athletisism but he hasn't had the chance to show that he can run routes. To me, he is a late 1st round pick.

I think Thomas is like a somewhat more glorified Marcus Easley. Perhaps a bit more physical, but compare the two.

Easley, 6-3 210, is definitely on a run first team at UConn. Easley came on the scene this year and had 893 yards and 8 TDs in 10 games, including five 100 yard games, that he each scored in. 89.3 yards per game average. He had 4 catches for 40 yards in their bowl game against South Carolina.

His workout numbers were...
40 Yard Dash: 4.39
Vertical: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.60
3-Cone Drill: 6.94

No character or durability concerns.

Thomas is 6-3 224, and put up 1154 yards and 8 TDs in 14 games. 82.4 yards per game. He was shut out in GT's bowl game against Iowa.

No workout numbers for Thomas.

No character concerns, but with the broken foot, that'll bring up some questions about how that will affect his speed, etc.

Other issues for Thomas:
-Not a polished route runner at all.
-Improved in blocking, but still inconsistent.
-Can struggle to separate from bigger defensive backs.

Extremely raw, had one good year, and relied mainly on athleticism at the college level. Thomas and Easley, a likely 3rd round pick or later, will probably take the same time to develop. This is why he shouldn't be a first rounder.
You are comparing numbers, not play. Thomas' numbers this year are better than Calvin Johnson's first two seasons, and they went to the same school. Yes, Johnson had two very good years and one monster year and Thomas only had two decent years and one great year, but Johnson was the #2 pick. Thomas' height and weight are similar to Johnson's and his 40 probably would have been within .1. Potential alone puts him in the end of the first round and I wouldn't be surprised if a team eyeing Dez Bryant takes Thomas in the late teens or early twenties if Bryant is gone.

I didn't merely look at numbers. For Thomas, I evaluated based on many different factors.

1. Route-running.
2. Ability to separate consistently. (Thomas also does not have elite explosion off the snap, allowing corners inferior in size to sometimes jam him.)
3. Hands (I noted in earlier posts he dropped quite a few easy passes)
4. Blocking
5. Character
6. Durability
7. Statistical output
8. Consistency
9. Potential
10. Game speed
11. Intelligence
12. Weigh-in and workout tests.

I don't think Thomas is a bad player, or that he won't turn out well. He could be a star. I simply evaluate him differently in terms of where I believe he should be drafted.