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Joe Haden runs a pedestrian 4.57 on his 40! (Eric Berry at 4.45)

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by valrod33:
One of the oddities about the NFL combine is how much a bad performance, or a little bad ink on an otherwise spectacular player can drop them down --- right to a much better team that can use them immediately.

For every guy that uses the week in Indy to catapult himself to greater cash -- think Darrius Heyward-Bey -- there's the types like Warren Sapp who through either a bad workout or bad press fall into the laps of teams later on.

And as the questions pile up on a guy like Joe Haden, with a questionable forty-time and other small blips, you have to wonder if a team like San Francisco, with a pair of picks in the teens, could see the player who, on film, is the consensus top CB available, fall.

It's worth watching with Haden. Many have him pegged to a team like Cleveland with the No. 7 pick, but a bad forty-time repeated at his pro day could have teams finding great value. If your team needs a CB and you pick past No. 10, Haden may have done your team a great favor today.

from ESPN

LOL...at first I was like damn Valrod is writing a real post and not a joke..then I see it's from ESPN

like i would really use big words like oddities and questionable
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just saw Earl Thomas leave tire marks on Haden's back. Thomas has jumped right over him, regardless whether he plays corner or safety.

Reality check for Niners' fans: This team needs OL...badly. We already have two solid starting CB's in Clements and Spencer, a good nickel in Brown, and an old vet in Walt Harris, who would be just fine as a dime corner in 2010. The CB position should not even be a consideration until the second or third round, and for primarily a player who returns punts.

Look for the Niners to draft Perrish Cox in the second round.

I'm with MadDog on this one. Forget getting Haden give me OL with the first two picks. Bugala/Williams then Iupati. I'd cream my pants.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just saw Earl Thomas leave tire marks on Haden's back. Thomas has jumped right over him, regardless whether he plays corner or safety.

Reality check for Niners' fans: This team needs OL...badly. We already have two solid starting CB's in Clements and Spencer, a good nickel in Brown, and an old vet in Walt Harris, who would be just fine as a dime corner in 2010. The CB position should not even be a consideration until the second or third round, and for primarily a player who returns punts.

Look for the Niners to draft Perrish Cox in the second round.

I was just about to ask how did Thomas look today. What was his .40 time. I think so many folks are caught up in we just move Nate to safety or cut him nonsense that they made it a need. Plus I'm not to sold on Brown to be honest. i think the secondary could use some youth. Rather some talented youth.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by valrod33:
One of the oddities about the NFL combine is how much a bad performance, or a little bad ink on an otherwise spectacular player can drop them down --- right to a much better team that can use them immediately.

For every guy that uses the week in Indy to catapult himself to greater cash -- think Darrius Heyward-Bey -- there's the types like Warren Sapp who through either a bad workout or bad press fall into the laps of teams later on.

And as the questions pile up on a guy like Joe Haden, with a questionable forty-time and other small blips, you have to wonder if a team like San Francisco, with a pair of picks in the teens, could see the player who, on film, is the consensus top CB available, fall.

It's worth watching with Haden. Many have him pegged to a team like Cleveland with the No. 7 pick, but a bad forty-time repeated at his pro day could have teams finding great value. If your team needs a CB and you pick past No. 10, Haden may have done your team a great favor today.

from ESPN

LOL...at first I was like damn Valrod is writing a real post and not a joke..then I see it's from ESPN

like i would really use big words like oddities and questionable

That's why I was like then
  • TX9R
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just saw Earl Thomas leave tire marks on Haden's back. Thomas has jumped right over him, regardless whether he plays corner or safety.

Reality check for Niners' fans: This team needs OL...badly. We already have two solid starting CB's in Clements and Spencer, a good nickel in Brown, and an old vet in Walt Harris, who would be just fine as a dime corner in 2010. The CB position should not even be a consideration until the second or third round, and for primarily a player who returns punts.

Look for the Niners to draft Perrish Cox in the second round.

That's quite a switch from what you said after the NCG. I'm with you on the Oline, but now worried that Williams combine will push him too far up and he won't be there at 13. I also think our secondary would be better addressed later.
  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


P.S. As I've mentioned to you in other threads, certain teams are much better at identifying talent than others. Personally, I think the jury is still out on Scotty as most of his "Impact" players have been high in the first round. Manny hasn't done what he was suppose to, Gore would of been a first without injury and Balmer is a question mark, not to mention Baas, Brandon Williams, Coffee, Robinson, Wallace and a list of others Im too tired to mention.

You can take Coffee out of that equation he has few career carries as a pro with shoddy playcalling when he was in the game to base a fair evaluation off of.

Some of those mid-round picks are not even Scot's. Nolan had final say at that time.[/quote]

Like I said, the jury is still out. IMO, he hasn't proven to be anything special as a GM. Outside of Gore, none of his later round picks could be considered diamonds in the rough. Maybe Goldson if he pans out.

Not sure whose pick Haralson or Morgan was but those were good finds in the mid to late rounds.
  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by filthydogma:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by filthydogma:
Really I can't stand the fact that people ,our own FO included, think that we can just dream up a starter out of the third fourth or fifth round. Let me tell you something that my mom used to say "just cause you put syrup on s&%t doesn't make it pancakes"

One of the best LT's in the NFL, Michael Roos was a 2nd round pick. OL do not need to be selected in the 1st round to be great. Go look at the Saints OL that got them to the SB :

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

The Colts :

LT Charlie Johnson: Sixth-round pick, 2006
LG Ryan Lilja: Claimed off waivers from Chiefs, 2004
C Jeff Saturday: Undrafted free agent, 1999
RG Kyle DeVan: Undrafted free agent, 2008
RT Ryan Diem: Fourth-round pick, 2001

The Pats when they won their 1st SB :

LT Matt Light 2nd round
LG Mike Compton 3rd round pick (signed from Detroit)
C Damien Woody 1st round
RG Joe Andruzzi UDFA (Claimed off waivers from Packers)
RT Greg Robinson-Randall 4th round

So pass the s**t before my pancakes get cold while I stand by the BPA philosophy.

LOL you got me there I'm just tired of getting our QB'S off the grass after the play is over. It would be nice if we had an offensive line, I see so much talent and potential out there, and Mcnugget isn't that great at offensive lineman so I wish he would go for the gimme and get a first day O line.

KRS1 - You could do that with any position in the NFL. Tom Brady and Joe Montana where both 6th and 3rd round picks. Does that mean teams should wait until the later rounds to select a QB? No, the logic is flawed. No one is saying you cant find value in later rounds, what we are saying is your probablility of finding an elite player is much greater in the earlier rounds. Why do you think there is a draft value chart? Amazing...

Agreed...these were success stories, and for every success story of a guy drafted lower than the 2nd round, there's a MILLION of failure stories. The probability of getting an elite OLman in the first 2 rounds is WAAAY better than 3 though 7. Same goes for CB's and evey other positon. Yes, you may get lucky here and there.....but picking em early is better if you wanna slim your odds of drafting a bust. What about a list of top 15 OT's Taken, and how many fail to contrast your hard work it took to compile your "later round gem" list? I can appreciate the work you put into your post, even if I don't agree with it.

Again, we have different opinions of what our team needs. I believe OL is the weakest unit we have, and you'd rather draft a CB. I still think that the #27 offense ranking trumps the #4 scoring defensive ranking...and think we should draft OFFENSE with our best picks. We clearly need help on offense more than we need help on defense. I'd still be happy if we took haden(given he'll run faster at his proday), and hope for Jon Asamoah, Illinois, 6-4, 305 in the 2nd if we do.

I NEVER said that. And you need to read my post after the one you are quoting.
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just saw Earl Thomas leave tire marks on Haden's back. Thomas has jumped right over him, regardless whether he plays corner or safety.

Reality check for Niners' fans: This team needs OL...badly. We already have two solid starting CB's in Clements and Spencer, a good nickel in Brown, and an old vet in Walt Harris, who would be just fine as a dime corner in 2010. The CB position should not even be a consideration until the second or third round, and for primarily a player who returns punts.

Look for the Niners to draft Perrish Cox in the second round.

Not sure Haden is falling all that far just yet. I think teams saw he had a poor stance to run his 40 and also noticed that he plays a lot faster on film. I'd bet most will wait and see how he fares during his pro day should he choose to run again, should he stand on those numbers then he is not doing himself any favors and will be moved down on draft boards.
Put him in a Cover 2 scheme or make him your 3rd. CB and he's a steal..
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just saw Earl Thomas leave tire marks on Haden's back. Thomas has jumped right over him, regardless whether he plays corner or safety.

Reality check for Niners' fans: This team needs OL...badly. We already have two solid starting CB's in Clements and Spencer, a good nickel in Brown, and an old vet in Walt Harris, who would be just fine as a dime corner in 2010. The CB position should not even be a consideration until the second or third round, and for primarily a player who returns punts.

Look for the Niners to draft Perrish Cox in the second round.

Over reaction from the dog??????? Haden is still going to be the top CB taken. Game film doesnt lie and he was a stud all year. As much as you want to draft 2 OL in round 1 its not going to happen. I seriously doubt that Iupati will be a 49er.

[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Mar 2, 2010 at 13:05:55 ]
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


P.S. As I've mentioned to you in other threads, certain teams are much better at identifying talent than others. Personally, I think the jury is still out on Scotty as most of his "Impact" players have been high in the first round. Manny hasn't done what he was suppose to, Gore would of been a first without injury and Balmer is a question mark, not to mention Baas, Brandon Williams, Coffee, Robinson, Wallace and a list of others Im too tired to mention.

You can take Coffee out of that equation he has few career carries as a pro with shoddy playcalling when he was in the game to base a fair evaluation off of.

Some of those mid-round picks are not even Scot's. Nolan had final say at that time.[/quote]

Like I said, the jury is still out. IMO, he hasn't proven to be anything special as a GM. Outside of Gore, none of his later round picks could be considered diamonds in the rough. Maybe Goldson if he pans out.

Not sure whose pick Haralson or Morgan was but those were good finds in the mid to late rounds.

I'm not sold on Morgan or Haralson personally. If they where in the draft today with everything that I know, I might pick Morgan in the 5th and Haralson in the 3rd or 4th. WR are a dime a dozen and Morgan just looks like one of the dozen to me. In fact, in some of my other post I've said Haralson is the odd man out between Lawson and Brooks. He doesn't do any one or two things exceptional like the other two.

With that said, I dont mean to be calling you out personally. I'm just very very passionate about getting our Oline fixed at all cost. Its my belief that if we did nothing else this off season it would be a huge success and enough to put us in the playoffs.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by filthydogma:
Really I can't stand the fact that people ,our own FO included, think that we can just dream up a starter out of the third fourth or fifth round. Let me tell you something that my mom used to say "just cause you put syrup on s&%t doesn't make it pancakes"

One of the best LT's in the NFL, Michael Roos was a 2nd round pick. OL do not need to be selected in the 1st round to be great. Go look at the Saints OL that got them to the SB :

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

The Colts :

LT Charlie Johnson: Sixth-round pick, 2006
LG Ryan Lilja: Claimed off waivers from Chiefs, 2004
C Jeff Saturday: Undrafted free agent, 1999
RG Kyle DeVan: Undrafted free agent, 2008
RT Ryan Diem: Fourth-round pick, 2001

The Pats when they won their 1st SB :

LT Matt Light 2nd round
LG Mike Compton 3rd round pick (signed from Detroit)
C Damien Woody 1st round
RG Joe Andruzzi UDFA (Claimed off waivers from Packers)
RT Greg Robinson-Randall 4th round

So pass the s**t before my pancakes get cold while I stand by the BPA philosophy.

Good post. Although I do want to know, did the Saints, Pats and Colts invest picks in high round picks in the line only for them to fail and be overtaken by the latter round picks?

-9fA
I think Haden is still a good player, just don't think the TEAM is best served by this pick if Williams or Baluga is still there.

Both the offense and defense will be better if the Right OT play is better. Where as the Haden might improve the defense a bit. This is becase with better line play, gore and the passing game will improve. If the offense does better, the defense won't be on the field as much and will have more points to back them up hopefully and allow them to perhaps then be even more aggressive.

Even if the defense gets a little better and gives the ball back, its a mute point if the offense does to many 3 and outs.

Also, even if they don'[t score, perhaps field position will. Hopefully the offense can score just 7 more points a game in the coming season with the improve play of smith and crabs, which in turn make it easier for gore.

However, let us not forget that nothing is guarenteed. Players that were thought to be the next coming or great/god players were bust. Remember Bos, Mandrich, Stokes?
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by filthydogma:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by filthydogma:
Really I can't stand the fact that people ,our own FO included, think that we can just dream up a starter out of the third fourth or fifth round. Let me tell you something that my mom used to say "just cause you put syrup on s&%t doesn't make it pancakes"

One of the best LT's in the NFL, Michael Roos was a 2nd round pick. OL do not need to be selected in the 1st round to be great. Go look at the Saints OL that got them to the SB :

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

The Colts :

LT Charlie Johnson: Sixth-round pick, 2006
LG Ryan Lilja: Claimed off waivers from Chiefs, 2004
C Jeff Saturday: Undrafted free agent, 1999
RG Kyle DeVan: Undrafted free agent, 2008
RT Ryan Diem: Fourth-round pick, 2001

The Pats when they won their 1st SB :

LT Matt Light 2nd round
LG Mike Compton 3rd round pick (signed from Detroit)
C Damien Woody 1st round
RG Joe Andruzzi UDFA (Claimed off waivers from Packers)
RT Greg Robinson-Randall 4th round

So pass the s**t before my pancakes get cold while I stand by the BPA philosophy.

LOL you got me there I'm just tired of getting our QB'S off the grass after the play is over. It would be nice if we had an offensive line, I see so much talent and potential out there, and Mcnugget isn't that great at offensive lineman so I wish he would go for the gimme and get a first day O line.

KRS1 - You could do that with any position in the NFL. Tom Brady and Joe Montana where both 6th and 3rd round picks. Does that mean teams should wait until the later rounds to select a QB? No, the logic is flawed. No one is saying you cant find value in later rounds, what we are saying is your probablility of finding an elite player is much greater in the earlier rounds. Why do you think there is a draft value chart? Amazing...

Agreed...these were success stories, and for every success story of a guy drafted lower than the 2nd round, there's a MILLION of failure stories. The probability of getting an elite OLman in the first 2 rounds is WAAAY better than 3 though 7. Same goes for CB's and evey other positon. Yes, you may get lucky here and there.....but picking em early is better if you wanna slim your odds of drafting a bust. What about a list of top 15 OT's Taken, and how many fail to contrast your hard work it took to compile your "later round gem" list? I can appreciate the work you put into your post, even if I don't agree with it.

Again, we have different opinions of what our team needs. I believe OL is the weakest unit we have, and you'd rather draft a CB. I still think that the #27 offense ranking trumps the #4 scoring defensive ranking...and think we should draft OFFENSE with our best picks. We clearly need help on offense more than we need help on defense. I'd still be happy if we took haden(given he'll run faster at his proday), and hope for Jon Asamoah, Illinois, 6-4, 305 in the 2nd if we do.

I NEVER said that. And you need to read my post after the one you are quoting.

You're right. Scrolling through you posts, you NEVER said you wanted a CB. However, you gave examples of Guards and OTackes drafter later, and defended the elite CB status of haden. Reading between the lines leads me to believe you'd rather take OL help later and Draft Haden if he's there. Am I mistaken? I just thought coming into this season that the general consensus was our glaring need for OL upgrades.....
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Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


P.S. As I've mentioned to you in other threads, certain teams are much better at identifying talent than others. Personally, I think the jury is still out on Scotty as most of his "Impact" players have been high in the first round. Manny hasn't done what he was suppose to, Gore would of been a first without injury and Balmer is a question mark, not to mention Baas, Brandon Williams, Coffee, Robinson, Wallace and a list of others Im too tired to mention.

You can take Coffee out of that equation he has few career carries as a pro with shoddy playcalling when he was in the game to base a fair evaluation off of.

Some of those mid-round picks are not even Scot's. Nolan had final say at that time.[/quote]

Like I said, the jury is still out. IMO, he hasn't proven to be anything special as a GM. Outside of Gore, none of his later round picks could be considered diamonds in the rough. Maybe Goldson if he pans out.

Not sure whose pick Haralson or Morgan was but those were good finds in the mid to late rounds.

I'm not sold on Morgan or Haralson personally. If they where in the draft today with everything that I know, I might pick Morgan in the 5th and Haralson in the 3rd or 4th. WR are a dime a dozen and Morgan just looks like one of the dozen to me. In fact, in some of my other post I've said Haralson is the odd man out between Lawson and Brooks. He doesn't do any one or two things exceptional like the other two.

With that said, I dont mean to be calling you out personally. I'm just very very passionate about getting our Oline fixed at all cost. Its my belief that if we did nothing else this off season it would be a huge success and enough to put us in the playoffs.

That statement is chalk full of fail. From 2005-2008 of nearly 100 WR's drafted from rounds 3-7 only 3 ever posted 1000 yards or more. Top notch WR's (guys who are true #1's or 2's) are hard to find.