Joe Haden runs a pedestrian 4.57 on his 40! (Eric Berry at 4.45)

Originally posted by sspiker:

Originally posted by mayo63:
You can't call Haden an elite corner when he runs a 4.6 forty.

His 40 has exactly zero bearing on whether or not he will be an elite back in the NFL.

Actually, it does. The ability not to get burned by a fast WR is pretty important. Both Namdi and Revis had great 40 times.

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by sspiker:

Originally posted by mayo63:
You can't call Haden an elite corner when he runs a 4.6 forty.

His 40 has exactly zero bearing on whether or not he will be an elite back in the NFL.

If he can't stay with a speedy reciever how does that make him elite?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by filthydogma:
Really I can't stand the fact that people ,our own FO included, think that we can just dream up a starter out of the third fourth or fifth round. Let me tell you something that my mom used to say "just cause you put syrup on s&%t doesn't make it pancakes"

One of the best LT's in the NFL, Michael Roos was a 2nd round pick. OL do not need to be selected in the 1st round to be great. Go look at the Saints OL that got them to the SB :

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

The Colts :

LT Charlie Johnson: Sixth-round pick, 2006
LG Ryan Lilja: Claimed off waivers from Chiefs, 2004
C Jeff Saturday: Undrafted free agent, 1999
RG Kyle DeVan: Undrafted free agent, 2008
RT Ryan Diem: Fourth-round pick, 2001

The Pats when they won their 1st SB :

LT Matt Light 2nd round
LG Mike Compton 3rd round pick (signed from Detroit)
C Damien Woody 1st round
RG Joe Andruzzi UDFA (Claimed off waivers from Packers)
RT Greg Robinson-Randall 4th round

So pass the s**t before my pancakes get cold while I stand by the BPA philosophy.

Interestingly, 6 out of the 15 and 50% if you exclude the Saints, were either not drafted ot are not playing for the team that drafted them.

For me, it is a simple issue. If we were looking to develop players to fit into our future plans, any round would be worth a shot. But it is my opinion that we need two rookies to start this year. They will make mistakes, but there it is. And in my view we get a lower risk of a bust and a higher chance of finding a starter if we pick them high. I am hoping for one in the first round and one, depending on how things go, around 2 or 3.

Personal opinion.

Originally posted by SF69ers:
A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Yeah, but their not elite.

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Yeah, but their not elite.

Come on mayo, you don't think you're overreacting just a little bit about his 40? So when his pro day comes along and he runs a 4.3, that'll make him elite in your book?

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Yeah, but their not elite.

Come on mayo, you don't think you're overreacting just a little bit about his 40? So when his pro day comes along and he runs a 4.3, that'll make him elite in your book?

I sure hope it doesn't make him a Niner.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Yeah, but their not elite.

Come on mayo, you don't think you're overreacting just a little bit about his 40? So when his pro day comes along and he runs a 4.3, that'll make him elite in your book?

I know, I'm just kidding. I'm sure he'll run a better time at his pro day and he'll still be a top 12 pick.

Originally posted by filthydogma:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by JizzmasterZero:
For comparisons sake........Revis is listed at 6ft , Asomungha is 6-2, and Charles Woodson is 6-1. Arguably the best CB's in the game, and all over 6 foot.

you said who is gonna cover Fitzgerald, we had to 6foot CBs in Spencer and Clements who have basically shutdown Fitz the past years when he has played agaisnt us.

Im sorry but you are crazy if you wouldnt want Haden jsut because he is 5'11 and 3/4

actually he^s five ten and three quarters...and i dont want him because he^s shorter than the elite cb's...i dont want him because he's slow, we need offensive line worse, and by taking him, we lose out on guys like baluga or Iupati.

allow me to clarify. It's not because he's short that I don't want Haden. It's because he's slow, and we have bigger needs than CB right now. And yes, by selecting haden, We lose either Baluga or Iupati....and have to draft OL in the second round instead of the first. I feel much more confident in a Baluga caliber player vs a Charles Brown tier 2 OT. CB is WAAAAY less of a need than OL IMHO, If baluga is there at #13, I want him, and if Iupati is there at #17, I want him to. If only it were up to me.

Just to be clear. In possibly the deepest draft since 1983 you're going to pass on the best corner to take the 4-5 best OT? (RT on our team, not the highly valued LT) then possibly pass on him again to take a LG? There's no way both Bulaga and Iupati are gone at #17, and there's no way we should spend both 1st round picks on the OL in a draft this deep.

Just to be clear in your words, I won't be a Niner fan this year if we don't take any offensive lineman in the first. You would have to be an idiot , which may be the case I don't know you, if you think we can fix this O line doing what we have been doing, obviously it hasn't worked thus far and will not work now. It is time for a change of strategy DRAFT O LINE ALL FIRST ROUND I DON'T CARE IF BARRY SANDERS, DREW BREES, LAWRENCE TAYLOR, JERRY RICE ARE ON THE TABLE YOU DRAFT O LINE FIRST THAN WORRY ABOUT OTHER POSITIONS. Thank you.

You are welome my friend.

I think it's to early to knock Haden down to the non-elite CB status. I'd wait till his pro day and see what he times out at. My guess is, after working with a legit 40 coach (and not his dad), he'll put up a time that's closer to his real speed.

Originally posted by KOniner:
Gentlemen (and Ladies too--don't want be chauvenist), Joe Haden ran a 4.57 without pads. Sometimes I think the 40 is overrated because you don't know how fast the person is when he is in real football gear. Look at WR Jason Hill. He had one of the fastest 40s at the combine when he came out. But does he play like that? No. When you have twenty pounds of pads and gear on, it slows you down. Jerry Rice will not beat anyone in a footrace on track. But when he has the pads on the gridiron, even Deion could not catch him. That is football functional speed and the only way to see it is by watching film. Film does not lie.

Taylor Mays is going to have his stock rise because of it but he is still that same player on film who makes little plays. If Joe Haden does drop to 13, will have to look real carefully at that value.

Man, very good point! And you took the words right outta my mouth.

I coach youth football, and have a son who plays WR in high school, and we talk about it all the time. Guys look good and run fast in shorts and a t-shirt, but the minute them pads come on they're in th middle of the pack.

Bottom line is Joe Haden carries them pads pretty damn good!

If Haden is there at #13 he will be the BPA at a position of need.....no brainer!

I love bieng the heel anyway we all love the Niners and just want whats best for them I guess I did get a little bi-polar sorry guys.

Originally posted by filthydogma:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by mayo63:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
A lot of corners in the past didn't run a fast 40 and were very good pros.

Yeah, but their not elite.

Come on mayo, you don't think you're overreacting just a little bit about his 40? So when his pro day comes along and he runs a 4.3, that'll make him elite in your book?

I sure hope it doesn't make him a Niner.

Still don't understand why you wouldn't want him. He played very well in a tough conference. Great tackler, takes a good jump on the ball, has good recovery speed, and he's not afraid to help support against the run.

I'm still in the CJ Spiller bandwagon, but I'm just defending the fact that Haden is still a top 10 pick.

Originally posted by filthydogma:
I love bieng the heel anyway we all love the Niners and just want whats best for them I guess I did get a little bi-polar sorry guys.

It's ok, filthy thanks for the support.

Originally posted by filthydogma:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by filthydogma:
Really I can't stand the fact that people ,our own FO included, think that we can just dream up a starter out of the third fourth or fifth round. Let me tell you something that my mom used to say "just cause you put syrup on s&%t doesn't make it pancakes"

One of the best LT's in the NFL, Michael Roos was a 2nd round pick. OL do not need to be selected in the 1st round to be great. Go look at the Saints OL that got them to the SB :

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

The Colts :

LT Charlie Johnson: Sixth-round pick, 2006
LG Ryan Lilja: Claimed off waivers from Chiefs, 2004
C Jeff Saturday: Undrafted free agent, 1999
RG Kyle DeVan: Undrafted free agent, 2008
RT Ryan Diem: Fourth-round pick, 2001

The Pats when they won their 1st SB :

LT Matt Light 2nd round
LG Mike Compton 3rd round pick (signed from Detroit)
C Damien Woody 1st round
RG Joe Andruzzi UDFA (Claimed off waivers from Packers)
RT Greg Robinson-Randall 4th round

So pass the s**t before my pancakes get cold while I stand by the BPA philosophy.

LOL you got me there I'm just tired of getting our QB'S off the grass after the play is over. It would be nice if we had an offensive line, I see so much talent and potential out there, and Mcnugget isn't that great at offensive lineman so I wish he would go for the gimme and get a first day O line.

I believe we will take at least 1 OL in the 1st and 2 in the first 4 rounds but one can develop a good OL outside the 1st round with good scouting and good coaching. It's up to our GM to pay close attention to the opinions of his area scouts, OC, OL coach and HC on individual OL prospects in this draft class and work closely with them to to try and find those who will be quality lineman at the next level which is no easy task.

It's obviously much easier to hit on a lineman drafted in the 1st or 2nd as there are fewer top notch prospects that are available in 1 & 2 as opposed to the number of OL who fit in between 3-7 but it's all about getting value for your picks.