MAYOCK is HIGH on EARL THOMAS

Who makes the bigger impact, Berry or Thomas, will be determined on the field.

But all you have to do is rewatch the Super Bowl, and you have to agree that passing is the dominant way to gain yards under the present rules. And passing's dominance is even more true in college. So true, that it presents player evaluations problems for scouts watching draftees playing out of the spread, cause the spread offense is the dominant offense in college football.

So what is the future for the prototypical 225 lb SS who can't quite flip his hips fast enough in college to cover WRs, but can hit like a tank? What Mayock is saying is that protecting the pass is now more important than run support. Hence 2 FS's rather than a SS and FS. I agree. That is how the NFL is evolving offensively.

Originally posted by mebemused:
Who makes the bigger impact, Berry or Thomas, will be determined on the field.

But all you have to do is rewatch the Super Bowl, and you have to agree that passing is the dominant way to gain yards under the present rules. And passing's dominance is even more true in college. So true, that it presents player evaluations problems for scouts watching draftees playing out of the spread, cause the spread offense is the dominant offense in college football.

So what is the future for the prototypical 225 lb SS who can't quite flip his hips fast enough in college to cover WRs, but can hit like a tank? What Mayock is saying is that protecting the pass is now more important than run support. Hence 2 FS's rather than a SS and FS. I agree. That is how the NFL is evolving offensively.

I kind of agree, but I don't think all teams are on board with that way of thinking. While the league seems to be shifting to a heavier passing attack, some teams are going the opposite direction and concentrating on their rushing attack, especially with the emergence of the 2-back system.

On defense, I think our coaching staff prefers to concentrate on stopping the rush first and foremost. Goldson is solid against the run and has good ball skills, but he's not the best in coverage. Lewis is a throwback SS, in that he's like an extra LB back there. I think Manusky wants to stop the rushing attack and force teams to pass. As long as he can generate some pressure on the QB, we're fine. When teams have time to throw we're really exposed though. Our safeties and our physical CBs struggle with the deep ball, which we've seen too many times.

Even though most teams are opting to shore up their pass defense by drafting rangy safeties, I don't see us drafting a coverage safety. If anything, we get a guy like TJ Ward, who's game is more sililar to Goldson's. Most likely though, I think we'll wait and draft someone like Cam Chancellor, who excells against the run and can be a liability in coverage (like M. Lewis).

I doubt we go safety early (2nd/3rd), but if we do, I think it's between Taylor Mays, Chad Jones and Reshad Jones.

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by mebemused:
Who makes the bigger impact, Berry or Thomas, will be determined on the field.

But all you have to do is rewatch the Super Bowl, and you have to agree that passing is the dominant way to gain yards under the present rules. And passing's dominance is even more true in college. So true, that it presents player evaluations problems for scouts watching draftees playing out of the spread, cause the spread offense is the dominant offense in college football.

So what is the future for the prototypical 225 lb SS who can't quite flip his hips fast enough in college to cover WRs, but can hit like a tank? What Mayock is saying is that protecting the pass is now more important than run support. Hence 2 FS's rather than a SS and FS. I agree. That is how the NFL is evolving offensively.

I kind of agree, but I don't think all teams are on board with that way of thinking. While the league seems to be shifting to a heavier passing attack, some teams are going the opposite direction and concentrating on their rushing attack, especially with the emergence of the 2-back system.

On defense, I think our coaching staff prefers to concentrate on stopping the rush first and foremost. Goldson is solid against the run and has good ball skills, but he's not the best in coverage. Lewis is a throwback SS, in that he's like an extra LB back there. I think Manusky wants to stop the rushing attack and force teams to pass. As long as he can generate some pressure on the QB, we're fine. When teams have time to throw we're really exposed though. Our safeties and our physical CBs struggle with the deep ball, which we've seen too many times.

Even though most teams are opting to shore up their pass defense by drafting rangy safeties, I don't see us drafting a coverage safety. If anything, we get a guy like TJ Ward, who's game is more sililar to Goldson's. Most likely though, I think we'll wait and draft someone like Cam Chancellor, who excells against the run and can be a liability in coverage (like M. Lewis).

I doubt we go safety early (2nd/3rd), but if we do, I think it's between Taylor Mays, Chad Jones and Reshad Jones.

Reshad Jones FTW

Mayock does, but not NFL teams. And I don't see how he does, when Berry provides more balance in his game and experience than Thomas does.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by mebemused:
Who makes the bigger impact, Berry or Thomas, will be determined on the field.

But all you have to do is rewatch the Super Bowl, and you have to agree that passing is the dominant way to gain yards under the present rules. And passing's dominance is even more true in college. So true, that it presents player evaluations problems for scouts watching draftees playing out of the spread, cause the spread offense is the dominant offense in college football.

So what is the future for the prototypical 225 lb SS who can't quite flip his hips fast enough in college to cover WRs, but can hit like a tank? What Mayock is saying is that protecting the pass is now more important than run support. Hence 2 FS's rather than a SS and FS. I agree. That is how the NFL is evolving offensively.

I kind of agree, but I don't think all teams are on board with that way of thinking. While the league seems to be shifting to a heavier passing attack, some teams are going the opposite direction and concentrating on their rushing attack, especially with the emergence of the 2-back system.

On defense, I think our coaching staff prefers to concentrate on stopping the rush first and foremost. Goldson is solid against the run and has good ball skills, but he's not the best in coverage. Lewis is a throwback SS, in that he's like an extra LB back there. I think Manusky wants to stop the rushing attack and force teams to pass. As long as he can generate some pressure on the QB, we're fine. When teams have time to throw we're really exposed though. Our safeties and our physical CBs struggle with the deep ball, which we've seen too many times.

Even though most teams are opting to shore up their pass defense by drafting rangy safeties, I don't see us drafting a coverage safety. If anything, we get a guy like TJ Ward, who's game is more sililar to Goldson's. Most likely though, I think we'll wait and draft someone like Cam Chancellor, who excells against the run and can be a liability in coverage (like M. Lewis).

I doubt we go safety early (2nd/3rd), but if we do, I think it's between Taylor Mays, Chad Jones and Reshad Jones.

Reshad Jones FTW

He's probably the safer pick of the three. Chad is more of a thumper and I don't like that Mays doesn't wrap up tacklers. Plus, Mays' coverage skills are a mystery. Mays and Chad Jones will probably look better at the Combine because of their physique/speed, but that shouldn't fool anyone.

Reshad is very good in coverage and he's solid against the run. He doesn't have the reputation for being a thumper like the other two, but he's certainly no stranger to laying people out. He's still a hard-hitting safety and he's certainly one of the best in coverage (as a SS). He's been flying under the radar, but I think he'll be gone by the early-mid 2nd.

The one thing I gather from Mayock's point of view is that he is always a "tape" guy. I always hear about his views based on what he sees on the tape. If he "sees" that Thomas is more of a FS in that he's a center fielder with incredible speed for that kind of sideline to sideline range, then it must be so. He has a keen eye for talent and the details are what separate his picks like he picked McCoy over Suh for certain reasons in the details: The ability to penetrate through the middle quickly.

On another note: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that rangy FS what we need on THIS D? Isn't that where we have been burned before? Would the TD ball from Farve ever have made it if Thomas was on our team in terms of getting back as compared to Roman for example. It seems we really need this kind of player in our secondary.

I have not seen that much of Thomas and was very disappointed in the championship game against Alabama. However, I keep reading about his awesome playmaking abilities through out the college season with 8 INTs......8! And that is against some quality teams out there!

So I leave with this: If Mayock says he ranks Thomas above Berry for certain reasons, then I for one tend to believe him because all in all, he's been on the money on most of his placement of potentials since I have been watching him. That is me personally.

But if I were GM, my pick would still be Berry! He's just so much more complete than Thomas, in my noobie-draftnick world.

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by mebemused:
Who makes the bigger impact, Berry or Thomas, will be determined on the field.

But all you have to do is rewatch the Super Bowl, and you have to agree that passing is the dominant way to gain yards under the present rules. And passing's dominance is even more true in college. So true, that it presents player evaluations problems for scouts watching draftees playing out of the spread, cause the spread offense is the dominant offense in college football.

So what is the future for the prototypical 225 lb SS who can't quite flip his hips fast enough in college to cover WRs, but can hit like a tank? What Mayock is saying is that protecting the pass is now more important than run support. Hence 2 FS's rather than a SS and FS. I agree. That is how the NFL is evolving offensively.

I kind of agree, but I don't think all teams are on board with that way of thinking. While the league seems to be shifting to a heavier passing attack, some teams are going the opposite direction and concentrating on their rushing attack, especially with the emergence of the 2-back system.

On defense, I think our coaching staff prefers to concentrate on stopping the rush first and foremost. Goldson is solid against the run and has good ball skills, but he's not the best in coverage. Lewis is a throwback SS, in that he's like an extra LB back there. I think Manusky wants to stop the rushing attack and force teams to pass. As long as he can generate some pressure on the QB, we're fine. When teams have time to throw we're really exposed though. Our safeties and our physical CBs struggle with the deep ball, which we've seen too many times.

Even though most teams are opting to shore up their pass defense by drafting rangy safeties, I don't see us drafting a coverage safety. If anything, we get a guy like TJ Ward, who's game is more sililar to Goldson's. Most likely though, I think we'll wait and draft someone like Cam Chancellor, who excells against the run and can be a liability in coverage (like M. Lewis).

I doubt we go safety early (2nd/3rd), but if we do, I think it's between Taylor Mays, Chad Jones and Reshad Jones.

Reshad Jones FTW

He's probably the safer pick of the three. Chad is more of a thumper and I don't like that Mays doesn't wrap up tacklers. Plus, Mays' coverage skills are a mystery. Mays and Chad Jones will probably look better at the Combine because of their physique/speed, but that shouldn't fool anyone.

Reshad is very good in coverage and he's solid against the run. He doesn't have the reputation for being a thumper like the other two, but he's certainly no stranger to laying people out. He's still a hard-hitting safety and he's certainly one of the best in coverage (as a SS). He's been flying under the radar, but I think he'll be gone by the early-mid 2nd.

And I'm wanting him with our 2nd, then J Murphy with our 3rd. 2 young DB's that can lay the wood!!

[ Edited by jreff22 on Feb 26, 2010 at 10:13:54 ]

I guess it's sort of a good thing. Shows that this draft has depth at multiple positions.

Never draft a defensive player that has tackling problems.

Yeah, Mayock had Robert Ayers as the best pass-rusher in the draft last year. I know it's too early to pass out judgement on Ayers, but he ain't even close to being as good as Orakpo.

C'mon, Mayock isn't always right.

Mayock is being an idiot, EB is the best DB in the draft hands down. Saying Earl Thomas is a better ball hawk is just asinine. Eric Berry was used differently this year by Monte Kiffin and teams stayed away from him also.

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Berry with 13 and Spiller with 17, then Bulaga slips to us in the 2nd round because of his short arms?

Ok....I will put my pipe down.

Dude, Berry at 13 and best Tackle or Iupati at 17 and addressKR/PR in the 2nd. *puff*puff*puff*

Originally posted by kronik:
Never draft a defensive player that has tackling problems.

Somebody did draft "Prime Time" and he can't tackle for s**t.

Obviously if Berry and Thomas are both there then you take Berry.

But Berry won't be there at 13, and Thomas would be a great pick for us, IMO.

We've got plenty of safeties that can stop the run. And we've got a GREAT run stopping front 7. But what we don't have a is a safety that's really good in coverage. Goldson is solid, but I love the idea of letting him play closer to the line and having Thomas covering the deep ball. I really don't think our run D would drop off at all in that scenario, but our pass D would be WAY better.

I'm not saying Thomas in the best choice for us in the first. But I think he's one of the best choices (along with Spiller, Graham, and the OTs).

Originally posted by ToddShaw:
I just saw Mayocks top 20 board and he has Earl Thomas ranked higher than Eric Berry...discuss?

He also has McCoy ranked higher than Suh