There are 104 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

The Official Draft Two Offensive Linemen in the first round thread.

Just an article I found on our OL.

"Obviously Snyder's run blocking is much better than his pass blocking. In watching the games you can see that this is true. Sadly it's the pass blocking that needs to get fixed in order for him to keep a starting job in the league. The good news is that he went from being awful to merely bad, only giving up 1 sack, 1 QB hit, and 7 QB pressures in the last three games. PFF ranks Snyder at 61 out 77 tackles, which is about right. I know I've called him the worst tackle in the league, but there are others who are worse (though most of them are LT and when they screw up it affects the game more)."--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

"Baas is ranked 60th out 84 guards. Looking at the charts here you can see that he had two really bad games to start the year off and struggled through the middle of the season. His pass blocking is average at best, and his run blocking is not so hot either. In fact most of the year it's his run blocking that's actually suffered and brought his overall grade down. He can pull effectively but that's the only running play that worked for most of the year. We couldn't run up the middle, that's for sure."--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

Is this the same smileyman we have in here at the Zone?

If so,

"4. Based on the play we need a new RT and a new LG. Rachal will be a fantastic guard next year (assuming his playing continues at the level it did this year). Even with his improvement Snyder isn't anything more than an average to below-average RT. Same with Baas at the LG spot. "--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

Yup, Bulaga/Williams and Iupati would be a huge improvement.

I love it when I can get confirming data!

Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

I would say take a RT in this situation if only to finally get an fair anaylsis on Alex Smith. If we get a RT there's really no excuses left for him. No way we should address OL with both 1st rounders though.

OG is definitely not worthy of a #17 pick. Isn't the best Guard in this draft a mauler who still has to learn the technique of the position? Isn't that Baas' exact problem? Why would we replace Baas with mini-Baas? I can't see it happening with a mid-1st round pick, especially in this draft.

I could be wrong but in my opinion this draft is very deep at the 2nd and 3rd tier, Guard could be considered a need but is it important enough to pass on an impact player?

The last time we drafted for need was Kentwan Balmer. Iupati or any other Guard in this draft would also take a year or two to become productive.

Iupati would have immediate and profound impact playing at LOG. And yes, he's better than Baas. And yes, he need to improve on his technique at tackle and ROG. However, he's been seen as a potential Pro Bowl OG on the left side.

Graham, Thomas, D. Williams, Spiller or anyone at that 16/17 range will not have that kind of impact for except Spiller and Graham as I see them as improvements to our team.

In this scenario, Spiller is already gone and Iupati is BPA over Graham for now.

Iupati would have immediate impact. Wait until the Combine, man. Your eyes will be so open and you will need to pick up your jaw from the floor after you see this beast perform.

And another note...

I just started this thread to collect the opinions of our fellow zoners to get a sample. Of course this topic can be volatile because we all want the best for our team and two OL picks takes up two resources where one can be used else where.

It is that else where that I love! My man crush for both Spiller and Iupati are evident and I am yelling it from the Alps! But seriously, we have such a great situation for our first three picks.

Two offensive linemen in the first is but one scenario I would be happy to see.


I don't believe that Iupati is BPA over Graham.

To get Spiller we need to pick him at #13. If we go RT at #13, Graham would be the best option IMO at #16.

If we pick Spiller at #13, obviously we will probably go RT at #16.

If Graham and Spiller are gone, by all means pick up Iupati. But I think both will be there for us.
Originally posted by tomahawksmith:
absolutely the best draft yet...football is a brawl first...fast guys only succeed with good blocking

I know I'm getting older, but did Bill Walsh view football as a brawl? Seems to me we tried this at the beginning of last year and it didn't work out very well. Not many of the top teams this year, Indy, NO, SD, viewed the game as a brawl. Only NYJ and Baltimore. We need good blocking, no doubt about it. But we need playmakers on offense too.

2008 top passing teams: 2008 top rushing teams:
Hou NYJ
Indy Tenn
NE Car
SD Mia
Pitt Balt
GB NO
NO Dall
Dall Cleve
Minn Cinn
Phi Jack
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

I would say take a RT in this situation if only to finally get an fair anaylsis on Alex Smith. If we get a RT there's really no excuses left for him. No way we should address OL with both 1st rounders though.

OG is definitely not worthy of a #17 pick. Isn't the best Guard in this draft a mauler who still has to learn the technique of the position? Isn't that Baas' exact problem? Why would we replace Baas with mini-Baas? I can't see it happening with a mid-1st round pick, especially in this draft.

I could be wrong but in my opinion this draft is very deep at the 2nd and 3rd tier, Guard could be considered a need but is it important enough to pass on an impact player?

The last time we drafted for need was Kentwan Balmer. Iupati or any other Guard in this draft would also take a year or two to become productive.

Iupati would have immediate and profound impact playing at LOG. And yes, he's better than Baas. And yes, he need to improve on his technique at tackle and ROG. However, he's been seen as a potential Pro Bowl OG on the left side.

Graham, Thomas, D. Williams, Spiller or anyone at that 16/17 range will not have that kind of impact for except Spiller and Graham as I see them as improvements to our team.

In this scenario, Spiller is already gone and Iupati is BPA over Graham for now.

Iupati would have immediate impact. Wait until the Combine, man. Your eyes will be so open and you will need to pick up your jaw from the floor after you see this beast perform.

And another note...

I just started this thread to collect the opinions of our fellow zoners to get a sample. Of course this topic can be volatile because we all want the best for our team and two OL picks takes up two resources where one can be used else where.

It is that else where that I love! My man crush for both Spiller and Iupati are evident and I am yelling it from the Alps! But seriously, we have such a great situation for our first three picks.

Two offensive linemen in the first is but one scenario I would be happy to see.


I don't believe that Iupati is BPA over Graham.

To get Spiller we need to pick him at #13. If we go RT at #13, Graham would be the best option IMO at #16.

If we pick Spiller at #13, obviously we will probably go RT at #16.

If Graham and Spiller are gone, by all means pick up Iupati. But I think both will be there for us.

That's OK man. Graham is higher on your board, cool. I like Graham too and he has impressed me after the SB practices and games. I saw him in one Michigan game and he was able to work through double teams fairly well and consistently. I would be happy with Graham on the team.

On this team, would Graham overtake Manny, Parys and/or Ahmad? I would be happy with Two OLs as long as one is Iupati, but the fact is we have a great chance to land two talented players who will contribute right away.

Given what I have seen of Graham's ability, I would still be happy if he became a Niner.

  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by ninertico:
Just an article I found on our OL.

"Obviously Snyder's run blocking is much better than his pass blocking. In watching the games you can see that this is true. Sadly it's the pass blocking that needs to get fixed in order for him to keep a starting job in the league. The good news is that he went from being awful to merely bad, only giving up 1 sack, 1 QB hit, and 7 QB pressures in the last three games. PFF ranks Snyder at 61 out 77 tackles, which is about right. I know I've called him the worst tackle in the league, but there are others who are worse (though most of them are LT and when they screw up it affects the game more)."--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

"Baas is ranked 60th out 84 guards. Looking at the charts here you can see that he had two really bad games to start the year off and struggled through the middle of the season. His pass blocking is average at best, and his run blocking is not so hot either. In fact most of the year it's his run blocking that's actually suffered and brought his overall grade down. He can pull effectively but that's the only running play that worked for most of the year. We couldn't run up the middle, that's for sure."--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

Is this the same smileyman we have in here at the Zone?

If so,

"4. Based on the play we need a new RT and a new LG. Rachal will be a fantastic guard next year (assuming his playing continues at the level it did this year). Even with his improvement Snyder isn't anything more than an average to below-average RT. Same with Baas at the LG spot. "--Smileyman@Ninernation.com

Yup, Bulaga/Williams and Iupati would be a huge improvement.

I love it when I can get confirming data!


Yeah it's me. Couldn't you tell by the stats gathering?
I agree we need two OL...but I disagree those two guys are Trent Williams and Iupati. I was high on the latter...'til I saw him implode during the entire Senior Bowl week. He's got a lot to learn about pass blocking. I think Bulaga would be a better pick for RT...he's big, moves well, and is adept at both pass protection and run blocking. If you saw him in the Orange Bowl, you had to notice how well he played against Ga Tech's Derrick Morgan, supposedly one of the top pass rushers. I was really stoked that he's coming out and I think he'd be a great pick. As for OG, definitely not in the 1st round...and we should all remember how McCloughan feels about their value. So, 2nd rd would seem more feasible...and in that round we should be able to get the Crimson Tide's Mike Johnson. He's very versatile, having played both OT and OG at Alabama. I think Bulaga and Johnson would be able to start right away...because Coach Solari's shown he can get rookies ready to start their initial season. The second reason is Ray Brown...he's a terrific addition to the coaching staff...and should help get the youngsters ready to play.

Having said all that, it would give Singletary a chance to take BPA with the #16/17 pick. Several directions he could go...Spiller, one of the top CB's, or a guy I think could make a great bookend to our stud Justin Smith...and that's Penn St.'s Jared Odrick. He's 6-5, 300 and plays with an attitude...he showed that all during Senior Bowl week. I believe he could be all the things we've been hoping Balmer would be...yes, that would create somewhat of a logjam on the DL, but we simply have to create a lot more push up front if the pass rushing's going to improve. Sopoaga's a space eater, but little else. With your front 3, you have to generate a lot of push, and I think Odrick could be a terrific DE in the 3-4.
Great points, Corva! I have read similar positions about OG and somewhat concur if it weren't for the sheer domination at LOG. I didn't go back and review Iupati's play at LOG specifically, but what I remember is that he held his own and won battles well at LOG. He struggled at ROG where he's never played before. Sure he's practice a little bit of it as well as tackle, but you can't expect even the most talented player to step in and just dominate after that.

Instead, it showed that Iupati was willing to do what the coaches asked even if it meant he wouldn't do as well. I believe that he can be coached well by Solari/Brown who have extensive experience in molding young OLs.

However, there may be just too much good stuff like AM/PM to take two OLs in the first given the caliber of the other players such as Spiller, Thomas, Graham and D. Williams for example.

As far as your RT, I like Bulaga more than Williams now because of his versatility because he can play both sides, well.

Again, too much good stuff!



On another note: I just read this.

Are we going Zone or Gap running? That would also determine who we draft at OL, too. Given the article, Gap running seem to take over at the end of the season, but they did do some zone blocking as well. We know Seattle will be exclusively going to Zone.

If that is the case and we too are going Zone, we need to draft that Zone OT before Seattle at #13, no?

  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by ninertico:

On another note: I just read this.

Are we going Zone or Gap running? That would also determine who we draft at OL, too. Given the article, Gap running seem to take over at the end of the season, but they did do some zone blocking as well. We know Seattle will be exclusively going to Zone.

If that is the case and we too are going Zone, we need to draft that Zone OT before Seattle at #13, no?


I think we're running a combination. I don't think we'll switch entirely to zone, because that takes some serious coaching. Solari said in his press interview that he'll coach a bit of everything, so I think we do gap for some plays and zone for others.

I do think that our most effective running plays were zone based blocking. Zone blocking also makes it easier to pass block since you don't have to worry about defensive players stunting or delayed blitzes.
  • Walsh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 294
It's hard to commit to drafting 2 O Linemen when you don't know what your QB can/can't do. RT is a need but is an upgraded guard going to get Gore a few extra yards a run? I'm not so sure when every team we play puts 8 in the box. I think we take that 2nd #1 and use it on a DB/CB or passrusher.

Am I the only one sick of seeing Roman on the field? And is Nate even worth the money he's going to get this year? Our pick will go farther on defense cuz we at least know what we run. We could have a top 10 D next year! Offensively though, we can't pass the ball. Until we get a QB, we gotta win with D and special teams.

Ghost is right. Investing in 2 Olinemen, it's like putting some cheap plastic jewelry in a million dollar safe. What's the point?
Originally posted by Walsh:
It's hard to commit to drafting 2 O Linemen when you don't know what your QB can/can't do. RT is a need but is an upgraded guard going to get Gore a few extra yards a run? I'm not so sure when every team we play puts 8 in the box. I think we take that 2nd #1 and use it on a DB/CB or passrusher.

Am I the only one sick of seeing Roman on the field? And is Nate even worth the money he's going to get this year? Our pick will go farther on defense cuz we at least know what we run. We could have a top 10 D next year! Offensively though, we can't pass the ball. Until we get a QB, we gotta win with D and special teams.

Ghost is right. Investing in 2 Olinemen, it's like putting some cheap plastic jewelry in a million dollar safe. What's the point?

Chicken and egg. I think you are wrong about Smith, but if you are right, do we wait until we have a first rate qb before we then go out and get him some protection? Duh!

Or do we say, this is not a classic year for qb's although next year may be. But there are some excellent tackles, probably our weakest position. Let's get our line sorted and if Smith doesn't prosper we can draft his replacement and bring him along behind a line which will be developing towards excellence
At first I was all in for drafting two OL's in the first round. The problem is I am not sold on any of the OL in this draft except Iupati. The OT's scare me. If we did end up with Campbell and Iupati I wouldn't be disappointed though. But Davis, Bulaga and Williams all scare me. I don't think they are first round talents at all.
I think the biggest deal with our O-Line this season was dealing with injuries as well as young players who really haven't played much together. As this group begins to gel more as a unit, I think we will see much better play from the line.

1.Staley- Injured early on against Minnesota, out for most of the year. Staley has been pretty average at best IMO. It wouldn't hurt to play Staley at RT....just a thought.

2. Baas- Injured during training camp drills, started season slow, but steadily improved and was pretty decent by seasons end. I think we sign Baas and he continues to develop nicely.

3. Heitmann- Steady but unspectacular imo. But he's probably the most stable of our lineman.

4. Rachal- Young and raw, but full of potential. Has a chance to become a real nice player in the near future. Yes he struggled mightily early on, but was playing pretty darn good as the season progressed. Big part of our future.

5. Snyder- Adam Snyder is a backup period. He can be our #1 backup at Guard or Tackle.

6. Sims- Barry Sims shocked the hell outta me and played good at his more natural LT position. Sims is a keeper.

Best of the rest:

Wragge- He can stick around one more year unless we draft a young guy in the later rounds to groom.

Pashos- Bye bye...never knew ya.

Wallace- Waste of a 4th rd pick.

Boone- Maybe he develops into a player. Worth the wait imo.


We definately don't need two linemen in the 1st round that's for sure. And unless we grab one of the top LT's and switch Staley over to the right side, I'm just not that crazy about drafting the 4th or 5th rated lineman to play RT. Especially when there will be players available who can impact this team reguardless of position. This team cannot afford to target a RT and pass up a guy who can take this team to another level.
Getting two lineman in the first round will do wonders for Smith and Gore. Here is how I hope the draft will play out...

1A. Trent Williams (OT)
1B. Mike Iupati (OG)
2. Kyle Wilson (CB)
3. Myron Rolle (S)
4. Thaddeus Gibson (OLB)
5. Linval Joseph (DT/3-4 DE)
6. Kion Wilson (ILB)
7. Rashawn Jackson (FB)

UFA
Brandon James (RS)
DeMarcus Granger (NT)

With Solari and Ray Brown developing Williams, Iupati, and Rachal with our already strong veterans Staley and Heitman, I don't see how any team in our division can stop us.
  • jcs
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,531
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Sorry tico, but there is too much talent at other positions that we can't pass up just to draft 2 olineman in the first. I know our line had troubles, but considering Spiller AND Graham should be there when we pick, drafting 2 OL in the first is a little overkill to me.

Unless you could tell me Hughes will be there when we pick in the second, then it would be unwise to pass on Graham (If we've already passed on Spiller to get a RT). While I want to select Spiller AND Graham in the first, I realize that we probably are going to take a RT in the first. Fine. Just get either Graham or Spiller with the other pick.

If we want Spiller, we have to take him at #13 so Seattle cant get him, and RT at #16. If we want Graham, we can take RT first and Graham should be there at #16.

There are some other guards available in the second and third rounds that may be abe to start as well. My dream would be to get Spiller, RT, Hughes, Jerry.

But IF Spiller and Graham are not there when we select at each of our picks, I'm totally with you on drafting Iupati and a RT in the first. But Asomoah and Jerry might be good enough to start as well.

Our Oline is one of the worst in the league...this year you draft for need. Drafting for talent has led us to the disaster that is the 49ers Line. You increase your odds of finding talent that works this way too. Save the rest of the picks for risks.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Sorry tico, but there is too much talent at other positions that we can't pass up just to draft 2 olineman in the first. I know our line had troubles, but considering Spiller AND Graham should be there when we pick, drafting 2 OL in the first is a little overkill to me.

Unless you could tell me Hughes will be there when we pick in the second, then it would be unwise to pass on Graham (If we've already passed on Spiller to get a RT). While I want to select Spiller AND Graham in the first, I realize that we probably are going to take a RT in the first. Fine. Just get either Graham or Spiller with the other pick.

If we want Spiller, we have to take him at #13 so Seattle cant get him, and RT at #16. If we want Graham, we can take RT first and Graham should be there at #16.

There are some other guards available in the second and third rounds that may be abe to start as well. My dream would be to get Spiller, RT, Hughes, Jerry.

But IF Spiller and Graham are not there when we select at each of our picks, I'm totally with you on drafting Iupati and a RT in the first. But Asomoah and Jerry might be good enough to start as well.

Our Oline is one of the worst in the league...this year you draft for need. Drafting for talent has led us to the disaster that is the 49ers Line. You increase your odds of finding talent that works this way too. Save the rest of the picks for risks.

We've spent the same resouces pretty much every other team in the NFL has on the offensive line. Over the past 6 years we've spent a 1st rounder at LT, 2 2nd rounders on guards (and let another 2nd rounder in Smiley walk), and 3rd rounder on a swing guy.

We've spent enough resources on the line we just missed on picks and had a poor coaching staff to build those players up.