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The Official Draft Two Offensive Linemen in the first round thread.

We're going to draft a tackle in the 1st that's pretty much a given. When it comes to drafting a guard in the 1st let me just say that chances are we're only missing out on prospect should we go in a different direction.

I know alot of people love Mike Iupati, but let's not pretend that we can't find a Pro Bowl guard or an instant starter should we wait to round 2 or 3 to address the interior line.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
So you would be pissed if we traded our two first rounders to move up to get Berry while drafting say Lupati in the second and moving him or Rachel to RT?

sorry but Rachel would get raped at tackle.
I would love to see this.

1)Williams

1)Lupati

2)McCluster

Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I just think it's important to note that in this last Super Bowl, neither the Colts or the Saints had a 1st round o-lineman as a starter. In fact, I think between the 2 teams, there's was maybe only one 2nd rounder (Saints RT Jon Stinchcomb), and that's about it. The rest of the guys on both teams were 4th-7th rounders, or even free agents.

Some might say, "well yah, because the Colts have Manning and the Saints have Brees as their respective QBs...they can get away with lesser "talent" on the o-line."

Precisely my point.

Until we get a great QB behind center, all this talk about o-lineman, taking 1 or 2 in the first round, we need a RT, an OG, etc., etc., etc., is meaningless. We can have a line full of 1st rounders and still not get anywhere without a great QB.

However, as recent (and our own past) history has shown, you can win a championship with lesser talent across the o-line, if (and only if) you have a great QB.

So go ahead and draft 1st round lineman until you're blue in the face, but don't expect much change...not until we address the most important part of the roster.

A franchise QB is needed.

Yours is a very respected opinion, but I disagree completely because this year we don't have the ability to draft a franchise QB worth it given where we are with Alex and there are many threads to cite so none needed for both sides. I think that Alex is the future especially in the immediate. The three powers, Scott, Mike and Jed believe he's the franchise QB...for now.

Now establishing that fact, we need to fill the RT position hands down which is the most glaring need and weakness on this team, no? Therefore one OL is needed. Why not a first round talent given where we are picking?

My point on Iupati in this draft is that some other good prospects are gone and the ones left wouldn't necessarily start because of the level of competition they would face at their respective positions. Iupati is hands down the best OG and would be a HUGE improvement to Baas, IMO.

And no, this thread is not meaningless.

Whoa tico, I never said this thread in particular was meaningless. My point was, the entire conversation about o-lineman (or any other position) really doesn't matter until we address the QB situation. Now, that doesn't mean we won't or shouldn't draft a RT or maybe even draft 2 lineman in the first round...it's all very possible. And me using the word meaningless was probably too strong. Of course we can/should talk about the other positions on the team.

But the larger point remains...regardless of what other positions we address, the one that matters most is QB, and until we fix that, we aren't going anywhere. So my post was not a condemnation of your opinion; it was more about putting things into perspective, and pointing out the rather obvious.

John - I would do whatever I could to trade for McNabb. Not that he will absolutely be the guaranteed answer, but he at least would give us a chance. Right now, with our QB situation, we have ZERO chance of making a playoff run...that's just the sad reality. Not only that, but a guy like McNabb would be a great mentor for the guy who I think at least has the physical tools to eventually (2-3 years down the road) be the guy...Nate Davis.

More so than any other move we could make this off-season, acquiring a QB of McNabb's caliber should be the priority. Now, I doubt our front office has the balls to make a move like that, so we'll have to stick with what we have.
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.
best draft with 2 OL

1. Bulaga
1B Iupathi
2 Gilyard

best draft possible
I wouldn't mind if it went something like this DEPENDING on who we get with our 2nd rounder.

Lets say it went:

Williams/Bulaga
Iupati
Gilyard

I'd be pleased with that...although I'm inclined to believe an OT, Spiller, OG draft is still better.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

I know what you are trying to say, but the problem is, we are not trying to be that type of team.

We are not building a west coast offense. Instead we are an offense that takes some shots and likes to (or at least WANTS to) run the ball. We don't currently have a good enough quarterback to deal with any kind of pressure. In fact, I have seen both Hill and Smith on multiple occasions, run out of a well protected pocket, only to run pointlessly into a defender and essentially, sack themselves.

Joe Montana was a genius, and had brilliant pocket presence. He could deal with pressure.

Keep Bill Walsh and every other 49er from the era, and replace Joe Montana with Alex Smith. How many Super Bowls would we have won in the 80's? ZERO.

I agree with the argument that you have to spend most of your effort looking for an All-Pro quarterback, rather than protecting an average one, but that philosophy is simply not going to happen. The 49ers don't have the brilliant mind of a Walsh to find their next franchise quarterback; so they aren't going to spend a bunch of picks and trade up in the draft, trade with a team etc, for a quarterback because they have no idea how good that player will be.

Bill Walsh also understood how his draft picks would fit within his SYSTEM. He understood who, what, when, where and why. He didn't just draft guys who are big, strong, tough, etc like we do now with little care or significance placed upon how they fit our system or team.
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

Things have changed a lot. Bobb has gone and the sort of starting guards and centers we used to take no longer fit our system. The game moves on and those who don't move with it get left behind.

Walsh was never one to be bound by a set of rules anyway. You say he said that guards should not be taken in the first few rounds. Interesting. In 1987 Bill took a guard, Jeff Bregel , in the second.

The golden rule is that there are no golden rules.
Offensive line is a definate need. To add to that, Olinemen are far and away the safest pick in the 1st round in regards to busts. Of any position Olineme bust least often, and it's not even close really iirc.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
We're going to draft a tackle in the 1st that's pretty much a given. When it comes to drafting a guard in the 1st let me just say that chances are we're only missing out on prospect should we go in a different direction.

I know alot of people love Mike Iupati, but let's not pretend that we can't find a Pro Bowl guard or an instant starter should we wait to round 2 or 3 to address the interior line.

The problem with this idea is that we already have two 2nd rounders at guard in Baas and Rachal. And both were picked overall earlier than our #49 in the 2nd round this year. The second problem is that Baas may not stay with the team. The third problem is that free agency won't be so free this year.
Originally posted by ninertico:
Someone had to make one...

To start, a quote from a very notable source:

Originally posted by jimbagg:
Picks 1a, 1b and 2 should be able to challenge for a starting position immediately.

The soft spots in the current starting line-up are at RT, RS, S and CB.

Why draft for 2011 when it could be a lock-out year?!

Draft for immediate contribution in 2010.

That's it right there! Draft for immediate contribution.

That premise is the foundation of this thread. With our first three picks we can take immediate contributors for three positions: ROT, OG, and RS. The first of these, the ROT, will be had in the first two especially given the caliber of prospects. As I have said before, the best ROT caliber prospect is Trent Williams and he can start with experience and talent to man our RT position for years.

The next two picks are the tricky ones, but I believe that it will come down to two players: CJ Spiller or Mike Iupati, both of whom are my top picks for the first. I want both of these cats, but RT prospects are too good to let go in the first so now it comes down to those two.

Of those two, Spiller would bring FLASH and excitement with his playmaking ability and being able to take it to the house each time he touches the ball. We have been missing this kind of piece to the playoff puzzle for so long. I have been wanting a RS since I was following the draft with Jackson, Maclin and now CJ. So how many plays will he see as a result?

Well those touches would fail in comparison to the number of plays Iupati would have as our starting LOG. He's an immediate upgrade who can replace Baas, now. No other player in that range could do that. Not Graham. Not Thomas. Not D. Williams. Not even CJ, my ultimate favorite player. Stick Iupati in and call it a day!

With Trent Wiliams at RT and Mike Iupati at LOG we now have a starting OL like this:
Staley-Iupati-Heitmann-Rachal-Williams with backups in Baas, Snyder, Sims, Boone, and Wragge with Pashos going to follow Foerester to Washington. Wow, what a line and what depth! Finally.

With the OL set for the next 6 years at least, we can turn our attention to RS in the second. There, we can have a bevy of RS to choose from that also can contribute in offense or defense. The list is quite large there: Wright, Cox, McCluster, J. Best or even J. Ford who I think will skyrocket after the Combine from the third.

You see, that combo above would satisfy Jimbagg's statement. Sure, two OLs in the first is not the flashiest or the most popular of picks, but man, they are rock solid, very talented at their respective positions and can contribute immediately. You have the best RT prospect and a Pro Bowl G prospect with those two. That's Awesome!

We wouldn't have to wait for development. We wouldn't have to wait for them to play. We wouldn't have to wait for 2011 for contribution.

We would have results, now!

I believe a two OL first is the best choice!

Go 49ers!

What does RS mean?
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I just think it's important to note that in this last Super Bowl, neither the Colts or the Saints had a 1st round o-lineman as a starter. In fact, I think between the 2 teams, there's was maybe only one 2nd rounder (Saints RT Jon Stinchcomb), and that's about it. The rest of the guys on both teams were 4th-7th rounders, or even free agents.

Some might say, "well yah, because the Colts have Manning and the Saints have Brees as their respective QBs...they can get away with lesser "talent" on the o-line."

Precisely my point.

Until we get a great QB behind center, all this talk about o-lineman, taking 1 or 2 in the first round, we need a RT, an OG, etc., etc., etc., is meaningless. We can have a line full of 1st rounders and still not get anywhere without a great QB.

However, as recent (and our own past) history has shown, you can win a championship with lesser talent across the o-line, if (and only if) you have a great QB.

So go ahead and draft 1st round lineman until you're blue in the face, but don't expect much change...not until we address the most important part of the roster.

A franchise QB is needed.

Yours is a very respected opinion, but I disagree completely because this year we don't have the ability to draft a franchise QB worth it given where we are with Alex and there are many threads to cite so none needed for both sides. I think that Alex is the future especially in the immediate. The three powers, Scott, Mike and Jed believe he's the franchise QB...for now.

Now establishing that fact, we need to fill the RT position hands down which is the most glaring need and weakness on this team, no? Therefore one OL is needed. Why not a first round talent given where we are picking?

My point on Iupati in this draft is that some other good prospects are gone and the ones left wouldn't necessarily start because of the level of competition they would face at their respective positions. Iupati is hands down the best OG and would be a HUGE improvement to Baas, IMO.

And no, this thread is not meaningless.

Whoa tico, I never said this thread in particular was meaningless. My point was, the entire conversation about o-lineman (or any other position) really doesn't matter until we address the QB situation. Now, that doesn't mean we won't or shouldn't draft a RT or maybe even draft 2 lineman in the first round...it's all very possible. And me using the word meaningless was probably too strong. Of course we can/should talk about the other positions on the team.

But the larger point remains...regardless of what other positions we address, the one that matters most is QB, and until we fix that, we aren't going anywhere. So my post was not a condemnation of your opinion; it was more about putting things into perspective, and pointing out the rather obvious.

John - I would do whatever I could to trade for McNabb. Not that he will absolutely be the guaranteed answer, but he at least would give us a chance. Right now, with our QB situation, we have ZERO chance of making a playoff run...that's just the sad reality. Not only that, but a guy like McNabb would be a great mentor for the guy who I think at least has the physical tools to eventually (2-3 years down the road) be the guy...Nate Davis.

More so than any other move we could make this off-season, acquiring a QB of McNabb's caliber should be the priority. Now, I doubt our front office has the balls to make a move like that, so we'll have to stick with what we have.

Dude, I didn't leave the tongue smiley at the end and leave it to my language to be direct.



I sound butt hurt don't I? Why do you have do be that way, Ghost? What now? I don't get the obvious?

I completely understand and agree with your point of view concerning a true championship franchise QB. Alex Smith is not one, yet. He really only has this year to prove it. He had some opportunities last year and came up short.

I don't see his replacement in this draft and this draft is too good to put both our firsts to grab either Clausen or Bradford.

I know this is going to pain you, but for now it is Alex. Sure, I don't feel completely sure that he's is it as our QB of the future. As a matter of fact, I don't feel completely sure he is not, too.

AAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! I feel like Charlie Brown tying to kick that damn football when it comes to getting the QB right, huh? One of these days, we are going to just tackle Lucy!!!



And...

Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

I know what you are trying to say, but the problem is, we are not trying to be that type of team.

We are not building a west coast offense. Instead we are an offense that takes some shots and likes to (or at least WANTS to) run the ball. We don't currently have a good enough quarterback to deal with any kind of pressure. In fact, I have seen both Hill and Smith on multiple occasions, run out of a well protected pocket, only to run pointlessly into a defender and essentially, sack themselves.

Joe Montana was a genius, and had brilliant pocket presence. He could deal with pressure.

Keep Bill Walsh and every other 49er from the era, and replace Joe Montana with Alex Smith. How many Super Bowls would we have won in the 80's? ZERO.

I agree with the argument that you have to spend most of your effort looking for an All-Pro quarterback, rather than protecting an average one, but that philosophy is simply not going to happen. The 49ers don't have the brilliant mind of a Walsh to find their next franchise quarterback; so they aren't going to spend a bunch of picks and trade up in the draft, trade with a team etc, for a quarterback because they have no idea how good that player will be.

Bill Walsh also understood how his draft picks would fit within his SYSTEM. He understood who, what, when, where and why. He didn't just draft guys who are big, strong, tough, etc like we do now with little care or significance placed upon how they fit our system or team.

Originally posted by English:


Things have changed a lot. Bobb has gone and the sort of starting guards and centers we used to take no longer fit our system. The game moves on and those who don't move with it get left behind.

Walsh was never one to be bound by a set of rules anyway. You say he said that guards should not be taken in the first few rounds. Interesting. In 1987 Bill took a guard, Jeff Bregel , in the second.

The golden rule is that there are no golden rules.

Yea! What they said!!! Very well done.

[ Edited by ninertico on Feb 10, 2010 at 8:01 AM ]
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
I would love to see this.

1)Williams

1)Lupati

2)McCluster


Throw in an impact Free Agent Defensive Player and we are in business
Originally posted by 9erred:
Webzoners need to read or re read The Winning Edge by Bill Walsh. He ranks what positions should be taken by rounds.

Left Tackles should be taken in round 1, Right tackles can be had in later rounds.

Guards should not be taken in the first few rounds.

1st round picks are reserved for DL or in the 3-4 rush OLB, shut down corner, WR, QB and Left tackle, note I did not say a right tackle.

I personally would have no problem with going for the best pass rusher at OLB and a shut down corner or FS in round 1, and a RT in round 2 or beyond.

Nothing lasts forever, including BW's draft formula. Walsh's formula worked wonders 30 years ago, but the NFL has evolved and so too should the draft formula.