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MadDog Big 200 Board- Post Senior Bowl Edition

Where is Jason Worilds VT?

Edit: NM, was searching for VT players. Listed as west virginia tsk tsk haha
[ Edited by confusedrhino on Feb 3, 2010 at 6:28 PM ]
MD, give us your thoughts on Perrish Cox. I am really high on that guy and would love to get him in round 2 if he is still there. He is physical, he can cover, he is a return guy. The character issues are minimal, so maybe we are lucky.
I think the WR position is going to surprise people this year. I could definitely see Dez Bryant tumble down the board, while Shipley slides into the 1st. I feel like Shipley is probably the most polished WR in the draft and could make an immediate impact.
Reloaded post-Texas vs. Nation game.

Couple notes: Thanks to those, especially OTC and confusedrhino, who helped find the mountain of errors in spelling (Muckelroy, Larsen) and the sacriledge of Jason Worilds attending West Virginia, instead of Va. Tech. That would not sit well in the land of the toothless.

I also noticed a host of ommissions that I have corrected/added, including Doug Worthington, who is a serious climber, George Johnson, Travis Ivey, Brandon Deaderick, and Perry Riley. With each day, I am tightening up this mess.

Notes of players: I'm going to stick to my guns on players like Taylor Price, who some in scouting circles think is a second rounder. I don't think he'll get inside that holy circle, but with 4.36 speed, and coming off a terrific Senior Bowl, momentum is on his side.

I also think Trindon Holliday will go much higher than some expect. Teams with fourth round picks are staring a special teamers, and at this point, he makes complete sense. Holliday should be the fastest player entering this draft, and should make a bigger impact than a reserve middle linebacker who breaks wedges on kickoff returns.

As for the seemingly inflated placement of Thaddeus Gibson: I believe the combine will be a good showcase for his explosiveness as a 3-4 OLB. He will run well, look solid in drills, and will probably be one of those guys who emerge after the first top tier of 3-4 Sams and Wills. For now, I'll hold with a late second round prediction.

Those who think Iupati has slid after the Senior Bowl game are going to be surprised how high he goes. There are numerous people who think he will be drafted inside the top 15 picks, and his arrow continues to point up. I think it is only a 50-50 shot he will be on the board at number 17 at this point; thus the placement at that spot.

Final Note: Before the combine, I'll do a major shakeup Big 250 board, which should pretty much complete the draft.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Feb 7, 2010 at 8:10 AM ]
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
MD:
It seems that your 200 Big Board picks are for the draft followers. Is there is a Mad Dog Big Board? Is there a Mad Dog Niners Big Board? I have had the impression that Scotty has his board clustered with talent and if there is no one in the slot when they draft they look to trade out, like last year. Will you give us the Mad Dog personal Big Board and or the Niners Big Board?

Down the road, I will give what I project as the best combination of what I think the team needs with what I believe will be on the board with each point.

For right now, I will stick to my guns and say an Iupati (at G)/best RT combo is best in the first round. If the team thinks that Iupati can play RT, then an Iupati/Graham combo. I think Graham is sensational, and he probably was my favorite player to watch in 2009.

Playing with scenario #1, the team selects the best available FS in round 2, and then the best available CB in round 3. In one of these rounds, grab a guy who can return punts. I'll just project a Nate Allen and Javier Arenas combo. In round 4, give me Trindon Holliday. I want speed burners, guys who can stretch the defense, guys that scare defenders. Then, give me the best available toilet clogger in round 5 (like a Troup or Ivey), the best available kicker (Aaron Pettrey) in round 6, and the best available LB in round 7.

My goal for the team is first, to repair the OL. Then, reconstruct the secondary with guys who can cover. Finally, it is to find guys who make plays with the balls in their hands, whether it be on special teams or in space on a pass play. And, as much as I love Joe Nedney, I think it is about time we look another direction.
I'll list specific players down the road after the combine and campus workouts.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Feb 7, 2010 at 8:31 AM ]
Originally posted by stever:
MD, give us your thoughts on Perrish Cox. I am really high on that guy and would love to get him in round 2 if he is still there. He is physical, he can cover, he is a return guy. The character issues are minimal, so maybe we are lucky.

Don't think he'll be on the board when we select in the second round. Looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and should show well at the combine.

The character concerns are the only thing I could see used against him, but as you stated, these appear to be minor concerns.
Originally posted by jimbagg:
MD, excellent work, as always. Thanks for being willing to put yourself out there with these rankings. And thanks for not following through with your premature retirement announcement, made last spring, in producing this ranking.

BTW, what do you make of self-proclaimed, pro-BPA McCloughan selecting only 1 OT (Staley), out of 42 total Niner picks, beginning with the 2005 draft? (Snyder was an OT in college, but admittedly rafted as an NFL OG). Hard to believe that a NFL OT prospect was the BPA for the Niners only 2-3% of the time that they were on the clock.

Thanks for the kind words, and research on the Niners' draft history. By drafting lightly at OT, it shows that they:
#1- Thought that Jonas Jennings was going to give them some mileage;
#2- Thought they could slide anyone over to RT from the roster at the time (Harris, Snyder)
#3- Thought the cheap route in free agency would solve the RT dilemma (Sims, M. Smith)
and most importantly

#4- Shows the Niners have not made a financial commitment to the offensive line. The 2010 projected cap number for the 2009 starters came to:
Eric Heitmann- $1.7 million
Joe Staley- $1.7 million
Chilo Rachal- $927,000
Adam Snyder- $2.25 million
David Baas- $1.3 million (if the salary matched the 2009 number)

The number roughly comes to $8 million for the entire Niners starting OL. This is almost a match for Alan Faneca's salary in 2010, at $7.5 million (he actually will make $15 million with a roster bonus, if the Jets agree). Joe Thomas makes $8.6 million for the Browns.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jimbagg:
MD, excellent work, as always. Thanks for being willing to put yourself out there with these rankings. And thanks for not following through with your premature retirement announcement, made last spring, in producing this ranking.

BTW, what do you make of self-proclaimed, pro-BPA McCloughan selecting only 1 OT (Staley), out of 42 total Niner picks, beginning with the 2005 draft? (Snyder was an OT in college, but admittedly rafted as an NFL OG). Hard to believe that a NFL OT prospect was the BPA for the Niners only 2-3% of the time that they were on the clock.

Thanks for the kind words, and research on the Niners' draft history. By drafting lightly at OT, it shows that they:
#1- Thought that Jonas Jennings was going to give them some mileage;
#2- Thought they could slide anyone over to RT from the roster at the time (Harris, Snyder)
#3- Thought the cheap route in free agency would solve the RT dilemma (Sims, M. Smith)
and most importantly

#4- Shows the Niners have not made a financial commitment to the offensive line. The 2010 projected cap number for the 2009 starters came to:
Eric Heitmann- $1.7 million
Joe Staley- $1.7 million
Chilo Rachal- $927,000
Adam Snyder- $2.25 million
David Baas- $1.3 million (if the salary matched the 2009 number)

The number roughly comes to $8 million for the entire Niners starting OL. This is almost a match for Alan Faneca's salary in 2010, at $7.5 million (he actually will make $15 million with a roster bonus, if the Jets agree). Joe Thomas makes $8.6 million for the Browns.

I have a strong feeling that this will change this off season. I would really like to see us sign a RT so we can have full flexibility in the first round of the draft. Jerry, Black and Johnson can all be had in the second round and later.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
MD:
It seems that your 200 Big Board picks are for the draft followers. Is there is a Mad Dog Big Board? Is there a Mad Dog Niners Big Board? I have had the impression that Scotty has his board clustered with talent and if there is no one in the slot when they draft they look to trade out, like last year. Will you give us the Mad Dog personal Big Board and or the Niners Big Board?

Down the road, I will give what I project as the best combination of what I think the team needs with what I believe will be on the board with each point.

For right now, I will stick to my guns and say an Iupati (at G)/best RT combo is best in the first round. If the team thinks that Iupati can play RT, then an Iupati/Graham combo. I think Graham is sensational, and he probably was my favorite player to watch in 2009.

Playing with scenario #1, the team selects the best available FS in round 2, and then the best available CB in round 3. In one of these rounds, grab a guy who can return punts. I'll just project a Nate Allen and Javier Arenas combo. In round 4, give me Trindon Holliday. I want speed burners, guys who can stretch the defense, guys that scare defenders. Then, give me the best available toilet clogger in round 5 (like a Troup or Ivey), the best available kicker (Aaron Pettrey) in round 6, and the best available LB in round 7.

My goal for the team is first, to repair the OL. Then, reconstruct the secondary with guys who can cover. Finally, it is to find guys who make plays with the balls in their hands, whether it be on special teams or in space on a pass play. And, as much as I love Joe Nedney, I think it is about time we look another direction.

Maddog:
Thanks for the feedback and the tentative draft. I like the draft including the NT and the kicker. I also like Graham and Iupati.

Do you think that the Niners draft scouts "see" the things the Webzone thinks that they see in different players? I often wonder what they think they see in different players. After a while if the draft picks do not pan out it is a problem in the scouts, the webzone, or the final decision maker.
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jimbagg:
MD, excellent work, as always. Thanks for being willing to put yourself out there with these rankings. And thanks for not following through with your premature retirement announcement, made last spring, in producing this ranking.

BTW, what do you make of self-proclaimed, pro-BPA McCloughan selecting only 1 OT (Staley), out of 42 total Niner picks, beginning with the 2005 draft? (Snyder was an OT in college, but admittedly rafted as an NFL OG). Hard to believe that a NFL OT prospect was the BPA for the Niners only 2-3% of the time that they were on the clock.

Thanks for the kind words, and research on the Niners' draft history. By drafting lightly at OT, it shows that they:
#1- Thought that Jonas Jennings was going to give them some mileage;
#2- Thought they could slide anyone over to RT from the roster at the time (Harris, Snyder)
#3- Thought the cheap route in free agency would solve the RT dilemma (Sims, M. Smith)
and most importantly

#4- Shows the Niners have not made a financial commitment to the offensive line. The 2010 projected cap number for the 2009 starters came to:
Eric Heitmann- $1.7 million
Joe Staley- $1.7 million
Chilo Rachal- $927,000
Adam Snyder- $2.25 million
David Baas- $1.3 million (if the salary matched the 2009 number)

The number roughly comes to $8 million for the entire Niners starting OL. This is almost a match for Alan Faneca's salary in 2010, at $7.5 million (he actually will make $15 million with a roster bonus, if the Jets agree). Joe Thomas makes $8.6 million for the Browns.

I have a strong feeling that this will change this off season. I would really like to see us sign a RT so we can have full flexibility in the first round of the draft. Jerry, Black and Johnson can all be had in the second round and later.

I dunno, i would rather go for a more sure thing and draft OL at either 13 or 16/17. After watching the game last night and seeing the time both Peyton and Brees got in the pocket means we gotta fix this line ASAP
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Reloaded post-Texas vs. Nation game.

Couple notes: Thanks to those, especially OTC and confusedrhino, who helped find the mountain of errors in spelling (Muckelroy, Larsen) and the sacriledge of Jason Worilds attending West Virginia, instead of Va. Tech. That would not sit well in the land of the toothless.

I also noticed a host of ommissions that I have corrected/added, including Doug Worthington, who is a serious climber, George Johnson, Travis Ivey, Brandon Deaderick, and Perry Riley. With each day, I am tightening up this mess.

Notes of players: I'm going to stick to my guns on players like Taylor Price, who some in scouting circles think is a second rounder. I don't think he'll get inside that holy circle, but with 4.36 speed, and coming off a terrific Senior Bowl, momentum is on his side.

I also think Trindon Holliday will go much higher than some expect. Teams with fourth round picks are staring a special teamers, and at this point, he makes complete sense. Holliday should be the fastest player entering this draft, and should make a bigger impact than a reserve middle linebacker who breaks wedges on kickoff returns.

As for the seemingly inflated placement of Thaddeus Gibson: I believe the combine will be a good showcase for his explosiveness as a 3-4 OLB. He will run well, look solid in drills, and will probably be one of those guys who emerge after the first top tier of 3-4 Sams and Wills. For now, I'll hold with a late second round prediction.

Those who think Iupati has slid after the Senior Bowl game are going to be surprised how high he goes. There are numerous people who think he will be drafted inside the top 15 picks, and his arrow continues to point up. I think it is only a 50-50 shot he will be on the board at number 17 at this point; thus the placement at that spot.

Final Note: Before the combine, I'll do a major shakeup Big 250 board, which should pretty much complete the draft.

I think there are too many talented players ahead of Gibson for him to squeak into the 2nd; It's not a big discrepancy, granted, since I lean more towards the side that says middle 3rd, but hey, just thought I'd mention him.

Kind of the same with Price -- Some may think his speed makes him deserving of an early third, and a good, but (in my opinion) not a great Senior Bowl week. Understandably, crazier things have happened. Thinking back, a guy like Jeremy Bloom went in the 5th. Maybe I'm letting my personal rating for Price get in the way of projecting him, not considering the "reach" factor of some GMs (like Al Davis), but I still think he's a 4th-5th round guy, with a high projection of late 3rd and a low projection of late 5th.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Feb 8, 2010 at 5:20 PM ]
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Hey MadDog thanks for all the hardwork!

I'm hearing some experts (namely Mike Mayock) projecting a possible fall for Eric Berry out of the top ten, what are the odds this happens? He is on the smaller side, what would his measurables have to be to push him down to us?
Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
Hey MadDog thanks for all the hardwork!

I'm hearing some experts (namely Mike Mayock) projecting a possible fall for Eric Berry out of the top ten, what are the odds this happens? He is on the smaller side, what would his measurables have to be to push him down to us?

Sorry for being off the board for so long, everyone. I will return back soon.

Eric Berry has zero chance of making it past number 7, unless he decides to break the law in the next few weeks. The Browns at number 7 have tons of needs, but Brodney Pool may not even be in the NFL by the start of 2010, and the team desperately needs a defensive QB. Berry is one of the few elite players in this draft.

Berry is not going to be tall. In fact, I expect him to be around 5'9 1/2", but he's just a terrific back-end defender. We've seen a number of shorter safeties become very successful in the NFL recently, as long as they have speed and good field awareness. Check both statements for Berry.

So, for those crazy mocks that have him falling to us at 13, they just aren't rationally possible.
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