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Prospect Watch: Senior Bowl 2010 GameDay Thread

Originally posted by teeohh:
graham+bulaga+gilyard = jizzzzz

A trade back, in the right scenario, could be mighty appealing.

OT + Graham + Asamoah + Gilyard =
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by teeohh:
graham+bulaga+gilyard = jizzzzz

A trade back, in the right scenario, could be mighty appealing.

OT + Graham + Asamoah + Gilyard =

I would not mind giving up 2011's first to get back into the second, seems like a lot of first round talent will be there.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Butter:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
So I just watched the game and I think Mardy Gilyard might be a great pick for us if (which it looks like the case) McCluster is gone when our 2nd comes around.

What is everyone's thoughts on picking a WR/KR/PR in the 2nd in Gilyard? I think it'd be a great pick if we got OL OL or OL/defensive player with the first 2 picks. Yeah I know that's possibly 3 offensive players in 3 picks but where do we need help? Offensively.

I'd actually much rather nab a CB/KR. The Niners already have a pretty big group of WR's, I think improving the Oline, giving the QB more time to throw will improve the passing game.

Butter, I think many around here are forgetting that we need to draft a WR regardless this year. We're only going to be going into the off-season with 4. Battle and Bruce aren't coming back. We'll have Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, and Jones. That's it.

Now, if we're going to draft a WR, why don't we get one who is a dynamic kick returner? That way, if we draft a CB/KR, if he goes down we still have a second return specialist and we aren't left scrambling. That's smart drafting.

Gilyard is an outstanding player and a 1st-round talent, without question. If he's there in the 2nd, I do not see or expect any other CB of greater value (that fits the system we play here) on the board.

What about Zeigler? Is he done with the Niners?

I agree, the Niners should draft a WR in this draft. It just seems like there is an abundance of speedy little WR's in this draft. Hopefully, the Niners could nab a value pick after the 4th round to be a WR/KR.

I am, however, interested in your assessment of these players?

Jordan Shipley
Jacoby Ford
Antonio Brown
Taylor Price
Originally posted by Butter:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Butter:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
So I just watched the game and I think Mardy Gilyard might be a great pick for us if (which it looks like the case) McCluster is gone when our 2nd comes around.

What is everyone's thoughts on picking a WR/KR/PR in the 2nd in Gilyard? I think it'd be a great pick if we got OL OL or OL/defensive player with the first 2 picks. Yeah I know that's possibly 3 offensive players in 3 picks but where do we need help? Offensively.

I'd actually much rather nab a CB/KR. The Niners already have a pretty big group of WR's, I think improving the Oline, giving the QB more time to throw will improve the passing game.

Butter, I think many around here are forgetting that we need to draft a WR regardless this year. We're only going to be going into the off-season with 4. Battle and Bruce aren't coming back. We'll have Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, and Jones. That's it.

Now, if we're going to draft a WR, why don't we get one who is a dynamic kick returner? That way, if we draft a CB/KR, if he goes down we still have a second return specialist and we aren't left scrambling. That's smart drafting.

Gilyard is an outstanding player and a 1st-round talent, without question. If he's there in the 2nd, I do not see or expect any other CB of greater value (that fits the system we play here) on the board.

What about Zeigler? Is he done with the Niners?

I agree, the Niners should draft a WR in this draft. It just seems like there is an abundance of speedy little WR's in this draft. Hopefully, the Niners could nab a value pick after the 4th round to be a WR/KR.

I am, however, interested in your assessment of these players?

Jordan Shipley
Jacoby Ford
Antonio Brown
Taylor Price

The first 2 are probably 3rd rounders, but Price and Brown might make it past that. I like both of them a lot actually as guys who can stretch the field.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by teeohh:
graham+bulaga+gilyard = jizzzzz

A trade back, in the right scenario, could be mighty appealing.

OT + Graham + Asamoah + Gilyard =

Oooor.... Spiller + Graham + Asomoah + Gilyard + Fox =
Originally posted by Butter:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Butter:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
So I just watched the game and I think Mardy Gilyard might be a great pick for us if (which it looks like the case) McCluster is gone when our 2nd comes around.

What is everyone's thoughts on picking a WR/KR/PR in the 2nd in Gilyard? I think it'd be a great pick if we got OL OL or OL/defensive player with the first 2 picks. Yeah I know that's possibly 3 offensive players in 3 picks but where do we need help? Offensively.

I'd actually much rather nab a CB/KR. The Niners already have a pretty big group of WR's, I think improving the Oline, giving the QB more time to throw will improve the passing game.

Butter, I think many around here are forgetting that we need to draft a WR regardless this year. We're only going to be going into the off-season with 4. Battle and Bruce aren't coming back. We'll have Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, and Jones. That's it.

Now, if we're going to draft a WR, why don't we get one who is a dynamic kick returner? That way, if we draft a CB/KR, if he goes down we still have a second return specialist and we aren't left scrambling. That's smart drafting.

Gilyard is an outstanding player and a 1st-round talent, without question. If he's there in the 2nd, I do not see or expect any other CB of greater value (that fits the system we play here) on the board.

What about Zeigler? Is he done with the Niners?

I agree, the Niners should draft a WR in this draft. It just seems like there is an abundance of speedy little WR's in this draft. Hopefully, the Niners could nab a value pick after the 4th round to be a WR/KR.

I am, however, interested in your assessment of these players?

Jordan Shipley
Jacoby Ford
Antonio Brown
Taylor Price

Zeigler is never going to surpass any rookie we draft nor would he get ahead of Jones or Hill on the depth chart. So, yes, he's essentially done. He will not be on the 49ers active roster at any point barring some massive barrage of injuries.

Shipley is a solid 2nd round talent who would make a nice slot receiver. He has good hands to make the tough catch and has a great work ethic. I wouldn't be too upset if we took him in the 2nd, but I think there will be better values available. Right now, I wouldn't expect Shipley to make it to the 3rd though.

Ford is a solid 3rd rounder who could sneak into the 2nd if he blisters the track at the combine. I have him graded as a 3rd with a "high" projection of the late 2nd, and "low" of the early 4th. Ford shows great body control and can adjust to poorly thrown balls. He plays much bigger than his 5-9 181 size, but he'd make a nice slot WR to start his career. I don't see him becoming much more than a #2 for any team at least for several years.

Antonio Brown is a very intriguing player. A compact guy, but like Ford, sort of built like a running back. Brown is a tad under the radar, yet he's been very productive, and is a fantastic KR/PR too. He may go a little later because he's not quite as polished as the others, coming out as a junior, but at 5-10 182, and probable to run at the very worst somewhere in the low 4.4's, Brown is another great slot WR prospect. I grade him as a 3rd rounder, but he could fall to the 4th or 5th and would present a great value there.

Price is the one I like the least. Yes, he's fast. But I don't see the consistency. I'm just not that high on the guy. It's not that he's a bad player, I just don't rate him as highly as most, and for several key reasons. Ready for them? Here we go. He's not a dominant player by any means (1 catch for 8 yards today). I don't feel his hands have been as consistent nor do I feel he's great at catching the ball in traffic or under pressure. Also, he really didn't produce much despite not facing top competition. I don't think he's all that great of a blocker either. To me, Price grades as a 4th-5th round talent. I don't agree with any assessments saying he should go in the 3rd or higher. At best, I could see someone maybe using a 3rd round compensatory on the guy, but that's a reach in my opinion. His speed numbers at the combine, if he runs the expected 4.35, will get people all caught up with him. But you need more than speed to be successful.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 30, 2010 at 11:02 PM ]
OTC, thanks for the feedback. So based on that post, who offers the best value?

Gilyard
Shipley
Brown
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.

Sure. Scouts don't grade on game situations. LOL. That's funny. Graham is a far better prospect than Larry English was and what pick did drafted at? Thanks for YOUR opinion. If Mike Lombardi say's this game helps and hurts your stock I tend to agree with a former GM. Not us wannabe GM's.

This coming from a guy who just projected Graham rising into the top 10 ?

Mayock still thinks he is late first at best. Graham will likely be drafted ahead of where Everette Brown (another highly touted DE and a webzone favorite) was but I don't think his performance from this game or this week solidified him inside the top 20. He is in the 20-30 range IMO.

If this game meant as much as you think it does why is it that majority of the coaches, scouts and GM's who came out this week pack up and go home before the game ? They will still check the tape but playing well in this game is less important than the actual practice sessions from the week.

Same reason that a lot of scouts watch the combine from home as stated by Mayock and if you listen at the end of the game he said WAS a late first round pick.
Brown fell justifiably due to his inability to play the run and he wasn't nimble enough for 3-4 OLB. I will guarantee you that Graham will be a top 15 pick at the least. Just ask Raji how much the senior bowl game meant to his stock. He had great practices and helped out his stock but his dominance of the game made it fly up the board. I think he went in the top ten last year.

i called up raji to ask him how much the senior bowl meant to his stock...he told me he had no idea who i was and hung up
Couple notes on the game:

Loved what I saw from many front seven defensive players in the game. Of course, the star was Brandon Graham, who was unblockable this season, this week during practices, and in the game. It will be more difficult in the pro game, but he has such a variety of moves (he's not a one-trick pony around the end) that he is going to be very solid either as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB.

Kudos to Dan Williams, who was stout, and Geno Atkins, who is very quick. Williams is a guy the team should take a serious interest in, if they decide to trade down a few picks from their 16th/17th selection. He is a toilet clogger, but also can get up the field. One nice thing about NT: they seem to last longer than players from other positions. So, you get a decade of work, not 5-6 years.

I would put much stock in WR and secondary play. The schemes were limited, and the QB play was really limited. It is just too hard to grade these guys in this setting, since NFL QB's get the ball out so much quicker, and with tons more velocity.

I still think the Jags will pick Tebow at number 43, even though he has no business being selected before the 3rd round. He's simply not going to be a good QB in the NFL for a long time, if ever. Too bad, nice kid.

I know that many are upset, befuddled, skeptical of Mike Iupati after last night. All I can say are few words: BJ Raji, Joe Staley. Raji completely dominated Senior Bowl practices last year (he was the unquestioned star), and yet was invisible during the game. Eric Wood completely dominated him. Raji's stock was not hurt. Joe Staley allowed 3 sacks in the game, 2 against Jay Moore, after a terrific Senior Bowl week. And, his stock was not dinged.

In other words, the game means VERY LITTLE to scouts, coaches, GM's. It is really mainly for the fans. That is why the scouts, coaches, GM's hop on planes and take off. They saw these players all week long on what really matters to them: the one-on-one matchups in practices, in scrimmages, etc. So, while it is fun to watch the game, I believe fans radically overanalyze and overvalue what happens in the game.

The bottom line with Iupati is that he did not adjust terribly well to other positions outside of LG this week (although he did look very sharp at RT in one practice session). He did not look comfortable at RG during the game, and that is where his problems emerged. But, coaching can change many of these issues on the line, especially if you have a good athlete, who works hard, and is coachable. I still think the kid is going to be a Pro-Bowl guard or tackle someday. Don't let a few snaps at a foreign position sway you too far.

Likewise, I don't see much from Gilyard in the NFL. He's the darling today, but he had a very mixed week of practices, and from all accounts, dropped in value throughout the week.

So, take the game with a grain of salt.
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,952
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Brandon Graham is a very solid player but I view him as a slightly better prospect than Parys Haralson. Maybe in the right scheme he can be a double digit sack guy but then again Haralson nearly was a double digit sack guy in 08 but no one will ever confuse him with an elite pass rusher.

I hope people finally wake up now and realize Tim Tebow is a 3rd rd prospect AT BEST.

Iupati will go where he belongs, in the 20-32 range.

I hope we get Gilyard, McCluster or Arenas (or Spiller).

I still like Bulaga and Earl Thomas with our 2 1st rd picks.

Haralson was nowhere near the prospect that Graham is. Haralson was drafted exactly where he should've been -- in the 5th round.

Haralson has not once been in the double digits his entire career. He had 8 in 2008. He never even had double-digit sacks in college, with the most he ever had being 8.5 his senior year.

Graham led the nation in TFL and has had back to back double-digit sack years. He's a monster and a man playing amongst boys. He and Haralson are completely uncomparable.

Comparing Graham to Haralson is way off. Graham is the better prospect hands down and will a first round pick. I just hope we find a way to get him and pair him with Brooks.
Originally posted by Butter:
OTC, thanks for the feedback. So based on that post, who offers the best value?

Gilyard
Shipley
Brown

Gilyard poses a great value in the 2nd, or even greater value if he somehow makes it to the 3rd.

And Brown offers a good value in the 4th and beyond.

Shipley likely will only give you par-value, meaning he'll be selected where he should. The 2nd-3rd.
How did these players do?

Tyson Alualu

Tony Pike

Of course, Ilupati


Missed the game cause of errands.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Butter:
OTC, thanks for the feedback. So based on that post, who offers the best value?

Gilyard
Shipley
Brown

Gilyard poses a great value in the 2nd, or even greater value if he somehow makes it to the 3rd.

And Brown offers a good value in the 4th and beyond.

Shipley likely will only give you par-value, meaning he'll be selected where he should. The 2nd-3rd.

I think Shipley is the most polished of the three and will be taken in the 2nd. He will be able to contribute on ST, so that helps, but teams are going to have to weigh his value based on whether he projects to more than a slot WR.

Gilyard, I feel, is going to take a while to make an impact in the NFL. He's probably a 3rd round pick because of his return skills.

I like Brown, but he's in a similar boat as Gilyard. Between the two, I think you could grab Brown later and at a better value.
Originally posted by ads_2006:
How did these players do?

Tyson Alualu

Tony Pike

Of course, Ilupati


Missed the game cause of errands.

Iupati: Started at RG, not his customary LG, and struggled early in the game. Was caught holding, which took away a TD, and was beaten twice on passing downs. He was matched up against Dan Williams, who is a load, and the best 3-4 NT prospect in the draft, and Geno Atkins, the fastest interior DT in the draft.

When flipped over to his normal LG position, Iupati looked terrific. He was smooth, powerful, blocked well downfield, and didn't have any of the problems we saw at RG. Almost like two very different players.

Alualu had a solid game with a sack and a forced fumble. He is quick on the field, and is going to be intriguing to watch as the draft nears. I'm not sure he is starter material, but he didn't hurt himself last night. Surely, a major level below Brandon Graham in talent.

Pike looked decent at times. He didn't make mistakes, and looked poised in the pocket. It is just very hard to grade QB's in this game, as they have no chance to gain continuity. Overall, he did fine.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Couple notes on the game:

Loved what I saw from many front seven defensive players in the game. Of course, the star was Brandon Graham, who was unblockable this season, this week during practices, and in the game. It will be more difficult in the pro game, but he has such a variety of moves (he's not a one-trick pony around the end) that he is going to be very solid either as a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB.

Kudos to Dan Williams, who was stout, and Geno Atkins, who is very quick. Williams is a guy the team should take a serious interest in, if they decide to trade down a few picks from their 16th/17th selection. He is a toilet clogger, but also can get up the field. One nice thing about NT: they seem to last longer than players from other positions. So, you get a decade of work, not 5-6 years.

I would put much stock in WR and secondary play. The schemes were limited, and the QB play was really limited. It is just too hard to grade these guys in this setting, since NFL QB's get the ball out so much quicker, and with tons more velocity.

I still think the Jags will pick Tebow at number 43, even though he has no business being selected before the 3rd round. He's simply not going to be a good QB in the NFL for a long time, if ever. Too bad, nice kid.

I know that many are upset, befuddled, skeptical of Mike Iupati after last night. All I can say are few words: BJ Raji, Joe Staley. Raji completely dominated Senior Bowl practices last year (he was the unquestioned star), and yet was invisible during the game. Eric Wood completely dominated him. Raji's stock was not hurt. Joe Staley allowed 3 sacks in the game, 2 against Jay Moore, after a terrific Senior Bowl week. And, his stock was not dinged.

In other words, the game means VERY LITTLE to scouts, coaches, GM's. It is really mainly for the fans. That is why the scouts, coaches, GM's hop on planes and take off. They saw these players all week long on what really matters to them: the one-on-one matchups in practices, in scrimmages, etc. So, while it is fun to watch the game, I believe fans radically overanalyze and overvalue what happens in the game.

The bottom line with Iupati is that he did not adjust terribly well to other positions outside of LG this week (although he did look very sharp at RT in one practice session). He did not look comfortable at RG during the game, and that is where his problems emerged. But, coaching can change many of these issues on the line, especially if you have a good athlete, who works hard, and is coachable. I still think the kid is going to be a Pro-Bowl guard or tackle someday. Don't let a few snaps at a foreign position sway you too far.

Likewise, I don't see much from Gilyard in the NFL. He's the darling today, but he had a very mixed week of practices, and from all accounts, dropped in value throughout the week.

So, take the game with a grain of salt.

Great insights MD, especially from the dline. Although I doubt we'll pick up a defensive player with our two first round picks.