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Prospect Watch: Senior Bowl 2010 GameDay Thread

  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 27,086
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by nekst:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
For those who are making up that Scot said "6-4 240 or I won't draft them" -- He did not say that. They PREFER them to be around at least 6-2 240. I highly doubt McCloughlan is going to disqualify Brandon Graham based on his measurables.

If he's into getting the BPA and "Just good football players" as he always says, he'll have Graham high on his board.

Graham, Game MVP and Defensive MVP.

Mardy Gilyard offensive MVP.


Top offensive producers: Gilyard - 5 receptions for 102, 1 TD.
Jeremy Williams - 6 catches for 83 yards, 1 run for 27 yards.

1- Not making it up, it was from MM's blog last year IIRC.

2- I never said he would be disqualified

3- Why not just quote my post if you want to discuss that ?

From Maiocco's blog:

Quote:
--My opinion about Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown has not changed. I still do not believe the 49ers would give either of them serious consideration at No. 10. In fact, McCloughan did give a hint about Brown when he said he would want that player to be at least 6-2 and 240 to 260 pounds. Brown checks under 6-foot-2.

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/04/trying-to-read-between-mccloughans-lines.html

If we pass on Graham because of a half an inch of height we don't deserve to be good next year. Ok if there's a better player. But because of height, that would be ridiculous. Manny is like 6'5'' and look how great Scott's prototypical OLB has done so far

We passed on Everette Brown when he fell to us in the 2nd last year did we not ?
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,980
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Isn't Haralson 6'1"? I don't see a problem here.

And a mid round pick on Nolan's watch.

But he's our starting OLB at 6'1". I thought that's what this argument was about.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.

Sure. Scouts don't grade on game situations. LOL. That's funny. Graham is a far better prospect than Larry English was and what pick did drafted at? Thanks for YOUR opinion. If Mike Lombardi say's this game helps and hurts your stock I tend to agree with a former GM. Not us wannabe GM's.

This coming from a guy who just projected Graham rising into the top 10 ?

Mayock still thinks he is late first at best. Graham will likely be drafted ahead of where Everette Brown (another highly touted DE and a webzone favorite) was but I don't think his performance from this game or this week solidified him inside the top 20. He is in the 20-30 range IMO.

If this game meant as much as you think it does why is it that majority of the coaches, scouts and GM's who came out this week pack up and go home before the game ? They will still check the tape but playing well in this game is less important than the actual practice sessions from the week.

Same reason that a lot of scouts watch the combine from home as stated by Mayock and if you listen at the end of the game he said WAS a late first round pick.
Brown fell justifiably due to his inability to play the run and he wasn't nimble enough for 3-4 OLB. I will guarantee you that Graham will be a top 15 pick at the least. Just ask Raji how much the senior bowl game meant to his stock. He had great practices and helped out his stock but his dominance of the game made it fly up the board. I think he went in the top ten last year.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by nekst:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
For those who are making up that Scot said "6-4 240 or I won't draft them" -- He did not say that. They PREFER them to be around at least 6-2 240. I highly doubt McCloughlan is going to disqualify Brandon Graham based on his measurables.

If he's into getting the BPA and "Just good football players" as he always says, he'll have Graham high on his board.

Graham, Game MVP and Defensive MVP.

Mardy Gilyard offensive MVP.


Top offensive producers: Gilyard - 5 receptions for 102, 1 TD.
Jeremy Williams - 6 catches for 83 yards, 1 run for 27 yards.

1- Not making it up, it was from MM's blog last year IIRC.

2- I never said he would be disqualified

3- Why not just quote my post if you want to discuss that ?

From Maiocco's blog:

Quote:
--My opinion about Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown has not changed. I still do not believe the 49ers would give either of them serious consideration at No. 10. In fact, McCloughan did give a hint about Brown when he said he would want that player to be at least 6-2 and 240 to 260 pounds. Brown checks under 6-foot-2.

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/04/trying-to-read-between-mccloughans-lines.html

If we pass on Graham because of a half an inch of height we don't deserve to be good next year. Ok if there's a better player. But because of height, that would be ridiculous. Manny is like 6'5'' and look how great Scott's prototypical OLB has done so far

We passed on Everette Brown when he fell to us in the 2nd last year did we not ?


Brandon Graham>>>>>>>Everrette Brown. You're saying we passed on Brown so we'll pass on Graham, but Graham is a better prospect than Brown, and has mad skills, and has been doing this all season, plus was pretty much the best player through this week in the practices and the game. Brown wasn't that type of prospect. If you're saying we should pass on Graham because we didn't take Brown either, that's not a very good point IMO when one player has a better chance to actually be good and we actually need what he does.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
For those who are making up that Scot said "6-4 240 or I won't draft them" -- He did not say that. They PREFER them to be around at least 6-2 240. I highly doubt McCloughlan is going to disqualify Brandon Graham based on his measurables.

If he's into getting the BPA and "Just good football players" as he always says, he'll have Graham high on his board.

Graham, Game MVP and Defensive MVP.

Mardy Gilyard offensive MVP.


Top offensive producers: Gilyard - 5 receptions for 102, 1 TD.
Jeremy Williams - 6 catches for 83 yards, 1 run for 27 yards.

1- Not making it up, it was from MM's blog last year IIRC.

2- I never said he would be disqualified

3- Why not just quote my post if you want to discuss that ?

1) I read his archives. It's not there. They talk about Brown's lack of agility making the Niners feel he couldn't cover. He had decent straight-line speed, but was among the worst in agility drills at the combine. Edit: Someone just quoted with the link stating 6-2.

2) Hold up now -- I never said you did. I'm speaking in general terms.

3) I just didn't feel it was necessary to single someone out, when others might start saying the same, so you could not be the only one.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 30, 2010 at 4:39 PM ]
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.

Yeah. When you see him play in college you notice he's tossing people around, and he did practice well, but he didn't do so great against a significant step up in competition. We need a RT more, I LIKE Iupati, but I've been leary about taking him in the first for a while.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.

Yeah. When you see him play in college you notice he's tossing people around, and he did practice well, but he didn't do so great against a significant step up in competition. We need a RT more, I LIKE Iupati, but I've been leary about taking him in the first for a while.


He doesn't seem to have "happy feet" from what I saw. I'm guessing his times at the combine won't be great. But we'll see.

Graham, on the other hand, had a great day, and must have improved his stock in the draft. Who knows, maybe some of those scouts and GMs who didn't see the game--cause its so meaningless--will hear about Graham from a friend or relative (distant cousin perhaps) who did watch.

Cause even tho he's got short arms, and isn't very tall, he's got great speed for a guy who weighs 260 or so, he was very mobile in the game, going from pressuring the QB to chasing down the back after an outlet pass, etc. That appears to translate to OLB in the 3-4 very well, and he would definately upgrade the talent and depth at that position for the Niners. IMO.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.

  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.

Quote:

Some scout or GM who didn't see the game
is my head scratcher.
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


You're acting like Graham just had one game and now he's amazing but he had a very good week of practice, he's very athletic despite being a bit short, and he's been doing this all season in college too. I've always thought of him as a first round pick personally, even when people say no he's a 2nd.

4 year player.......led nation this year with 26.5 TFL........10.5 sacks while being double teamed most of the time.....................had a dominant week of practice and the Defensive MVP of the game............

I think Graham is a little bit more than a one week wonder.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.

Quote:

Some scout or GM who didn't see the game
is my head scratcher.

LOL. Touche.
The biggest fallers after today were:

DE Selvie (not agile, not strong)
OTs Wang, Young, Capers, and Ciron Black.
CB Lindley
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
You guys do realize that there is not a lot of stock put into this game from scouts, coaches and GM's. The week of practice is more important.

A couple of ridiculous comments I'm seeing :

-Iupati in the 2nd/No to Iupati

-Graham working himself into the top 10

And FWIW before you go and type up your next mock after this game, Scot looks for OLB's for the 3-4 being at least 6"4 240 lbs. Graham lacks the prototypical height so do not be surprised if we don't take him. His lack of ideal height for a 3-4 OLB is what will likely cause him to go no higher than the 20-30 range overall.


good. I can think of one cat who got drafted later because he was short and led the NFL in sacks this year. Pick him at 17.

That dude was 5"11 IIRC but again Scot said it himself last year that he looks for OLB's to be at least 6"4 so that lack of ideal height should make you think twice when penciling him for us at 16/17.

I think he was making a general rule of thumb comment. It doesn't make all his decisions absolute. Doesn't really matter, no body knows what the niners will do, but I think his play this season and all week warrants hope that he will be drafted by us.

It is definitely possible we still would take him but I think in this instance he'd have to be good value from Scot's perspective.

I do have to laugh though that after this game Iupati is now out and Graham is in according to some. He's the new flavor of the week. Iupati performance does not drop his stock IMO, he practiced really well all week and that will be far more important to the evaluators in the end.

No question somebody will draft Iupati. Some scout or GM who didn't see the game, cause its so meaningless to everyone except all us poor, simple, football fans who actually watched it.

Might be a mistake, tho, to take him too high, cause he really didn't show much today--certainly not enough to step in and take Baas's job, or Rachal's. IMHO.


That was a reference to KRS-1's assertion, above, that GMs and scouts don't care about this game and that those of us who watched it and commented on some aspects of it are being "ridiculous" in our observations, or otherwise not living up to his expectations in some way.