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Building the OL. Which way is the right way ?

MM pointed out yesterday that there is more than one way to build the OL

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/01/afc-title-opponents-took-different-routes-to-building-o-lines.html

Taking it a step further if you look at the Saints OL and the Vikings OL

Saints

LT Jermon Bushrod 4th round (The usual starter has been out all year but Jammal Brown was a 1st round pick)
LG Carl Nicks - 5th round
C Jonathan Goodwin 5th round (originally drafted by NYJ)
RG Jahri Evans 4th round
RT Jon Stinchcomb 2nd round

Vikings

LT Bryant McKinnie 1st round
LG Steve Hutchinson 1st round (signed from Seattle)
C John Sullivan 6th round
RG Anthony Herrera UDFA
RT Phil Loadholt 2nd round

New Orleans ranked 6th in rushing 4th in passing 20 sacks allowed
Minnesota ranked 13th in rushing 8th in passing 34 sacks allowed
Indy ranked 32nd in rushing 2nd in passing 13 sacks allowed
NY Jets ranked 1st in rushing 31st in passing 30 sacks allowed


There is no right way or wrong way (use high draft picks or wait until the middle rounds or sign the top name FA's) and investing 2 or 3 of our first 3 picks does not mean we would be instantly better. Those guys all have equal opportunity to bust as any other prospect no matter how sure a thing we may think they are. I do believe we should look to draft at least 1 OL in the first 3 picks but at the end of the day it's about drafting the best football players for this team regardless of position.
With Solari on board we now have the opportunity to assess for the actual quality of our Oline and see whether they have the talent and just have had bad coaching. Most everyone is assurred that coaching will now be a settled issue with Solari, so the issue will be whether they have the talent.

The next issue is whether we actually need a RT or if Pashos will be able to handle the duties and with a RT in training. Sims handled the LT backup very well, the issue will be whether he can handle it for a couple of more years. So we need a RT, in my opinion, even if Pashos is re-signed. We need an OG to push our current crop as well. I am hoping that Solari will clear out any driftwood and keep the quality players. So De La Puente and Boone will need to be assessed as well.

So between Solari and the draft I have high hopes for our Oline.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
With Solari on board we now have the opportunity to assess for the actual quality of our Oline and see whether they have the talent and just have had bad coaching. Most everyone is assurred that coaching will now be a settled issue with Solari, so the issue will be whether they have the talent.

The next issue is whether we actually need a RT or if Pashos will be able to handle the duties and with a RT in training. Sims handled the LT backup very well, the issue will be whether he can handle it for a couple of more years. So we need a RT, in my opinion, even if Pashos is re-signed. We need an OG to push our current crop as well. I am hoping that Solari will clear out any driftwood and keep the quality players. So De La Puente and Boone will need to be assessed as well.

So between Solari and the draft I have high hopes for our Oline.

I feel the same way. With Solari and a minor influx of talent I think our offense will take huge strides next season. What we really need to happen is Smith and his receivers need to work on thier timing routes either during the offseason or after practices. Not to mention Crabs will have a full offseason.
It goes back to Madden saying, is it the OL that makes the RB or the RB who makes the OL?

Roger Craig said if the running back is quick and hits the hole, he does not need as big of a window.

The Niners have let good talent go, players who are starting on other teams.

1. Smiley- did not want to pay him
2. Harvey Dahl
3. Kyle Kosier

They also have done crappy coaching their present OL. I hope Solari rectifies this.

I do believe they need to stop the experiment of converting players. If they need a RT they should draft a RT, not a OG who could be converted or a TE.

Draft the best RT in round one slot 13 or 17 and then BPA. Let Solari do his magic
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.
It would be great if a pro bowl line could be built out of 4th and 5th rounders, this way you could always use the higher draft picks on other positions. That was the way that Walsh and McKittrick did it back in the day.

I guess there is always more than one way to skin a cat, so either way could work, although I think with lower round guys you need a combination of shrewd drafting, luck and excellent OL coaching

However,,,,

After watching our sorry excuse for an O-line for the past few years, I don't want to leave anything to chance.... Let's draft the best O-Linemen we can get, the no brainer guys.. I am even OK with using both first rounders on O-Linemen.

Hopefully Solari is the coach we have been missing since Pat Morris left.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.

Yeah it is. It's one of the reasons I think we keep Baas.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.

Well get over it. McCloughlan is in good company letting OGs go after their initial contract is over. Belicek is letting Logan Mankins go as a free agent, the guard that the Pats took one pick before we took Dave Baas during McCloughlan's first draft.
Originally posted by mebemused:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.

Well get over it. McCloughlan is in good company letting OGs go after their initial contract is over. Belicek is letting Logan Mankins go as a free agent, the guard that the Pats took one pick before we took Dave Baas during McCloughlan's first draft.

who said they are just gonna let Mankins go, if their is a Cap, he possibly gets tagged, with no CBA, he is tendered high, 1st and 3rd rd comp.
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:


...After watching our sorry excuse for an O-line for the past few years, I don't want to leave anything to chance.... Let's draft the best O-Linemen we can get, the no brainer guys. I am even OK with using both first rounders on O-Linemen.

Hopefully Solari is the coach we have been missing since Pat Morris left.

Well, there you have it... If you think that the OL is the key to the success of the offense (and many do) then the 49ers need to set themselves up with the best OL talent available, and this draft has some good RT/OG talent that should be available at 13 and 16/17.

I know we have other needs as well, but using these two first round picks on the OL is probably the best investment in talent we could possibly make to get this team pointed in the right direction.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.

Yeah it is. It's one of the reasons I think we keep Baas.

Actually i think it's the reason we will then let him walk again...
[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Jan 25, 2010 at 11:16 PM ]
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
it pisses me off that we let 3 quality OG's leave.

Kosier, Smiley and Dahl, all of which are starters. Its disgusting.

Yeah it is. It's one of the reasons I think we keep Baas.

Actually i think it's the reason we will then let him walk again...

I think Baas can be a decent starter with some good coaching. If we draft a star guard he can be a good reserve.
  • Kolohe
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Excellent post!!!

There should be a lot of quality O-lineman in the mid to late rounds. And having Pro Bowl QB's in Manning and Brees doesn't hurt either, and actually make their O-line look better than it actually is. But regardless, still a good point. A few OG's I like that we should target in the mid to later rounds:

Mike Johnson
John Jerry
Shawn Lauvao
Mitch Petrus
  • mayo49
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How many good OL are sitting on rosters not doing anything just waiting for an opportunity to play? All through out the league, teams have nothing but 4th/5th/6th rounders starting on their O lines. It just proves that you can find a good OL throughout the draft not just the first or second rounds.
[ Edited by mayo63 on Jan 26, 2010 at 6:37 AM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Excellent post!!!

There should be a lot of quality O-lineman in the mid to late rounds. And having Pro Bowl QB's in Manning and Brees doesn't hurt either, and actually make their O-line look better than it actually is. But regardless, still a good point. A few OG's I like that we should target in the mid to later rounds:

Mike Johnson
John Jerry
Shawn Lauvao
Mitch Petrus

And you make an excellent point as well. But I felt the discussion needed to be brought up because expectations are so high right now on us getting OL early in this draft and it's possible Scot takes a completely different approach and as evidenced, that approach can work however I think it's a lot harder to build hoping to find and then land those gems in the middle rounds. But come draft day if we don't go heavy on the line early there will be a bevy of threads and posts criticizing his approach.

I think as much as we are discussing the Bulaga's, Williamses and Iupati's we need to look at who could be helpful in the middle rounds that could come and be a force. Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans both came and started from day 1 with the Saints, whereas we have taken Cody Wallace and Adam Snyder and only one has seen meaningful playing time in Snyder and Snyder has proven serviceable at times but has never been able to claim a position his own. He's played 4 of the 5 positions on the line and has shown great versatility but has proven IMO to be nothing more than a valuable backup to have on the active roster.

Some guys who we should take some long looks at (Some we may have already mentioned in other threads)

Matt Tennant
Zane Beadles
Sergio Render
Matt McCracken
James Williams
Ciron Black
Chris Scott
Mike Tepper
Kyle Calloway
Jared Veldheer