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Chad Jones for a safety?

In many ways he reminds me of a larger Goldson:

Great speed and raw athleticism
Flies around laying big hits
Awesome dreads

Pairing the two would make for a nasty secondary with potential of being phenomenal in a couple of seasons. If he can be had in the second I'd be happy to see him in a niner uniform.
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

Agree with you there. He needs you to help him with his big board for sure!
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

The reason I feel this is subpar is because when I compare it to drafts of other teams, I see a team like Indianapolis getting multiple playmakers per draft, each year.

Over the past four years, the Colts have landed: RB Donald Brown, CB Jerraud Powers, WR Collie, WR Garcon, WR Gonzalez, OT Ugoh, LB Clint Session, OT Charlie Johnson, S Bethea, even return man CB Rushing. That's 10 key players right there.

How about the Vikings over 4 years: FS Tyrell Johnson, C Sullivan (has been outstanding as a rookie), WR Harvin, OT Loadholt, ILB Brinkley (played outstanding since entering lineup), RB Peterson, WR Rice, CB Griffin, DE Ray Edwards. That's 9.

Jets: Sanchez, Greene, TE Keller, CBs Lowery and Revis, ILB Harris, OL Ferguson and Mangold, and KR Leon Washingon (although hurt now) -- 9 great players -- despite only having 4 picks or less two out of the past three years, and no more than 6 in the past three years.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

The reason I feel this is subpar is because when I compare it to drafts of other teams, I see a team like Indianapolis getting multiple playmakers per draft, each year.

Over the past four years, the Colts have landed: RB Donald Brown, CB Jerraud Powers, WR Collie, WR Garcon, WR Gonzalez, OT Ugoh, LB Clint Session, OT Charlie Johnson, S Bethea, even return man CB Rushing. That's 10 key players right there.

How about the Vikings over 4 years: FS Tyrell Johnson, C Sullivan (has been outstanding as a rookie), WR Harvin, OT Loadholt, ILB Brinkley (played outstanding since entering lineup), RB Peterson, WR Rice, CB Griffin, DE Ray Edwards. That's 9.

Jets: Sanchez, Greene, TE Keller, CBs Lowery and Revis, ILB Harris, OL Ferguson and Mangold, and KR Leon Washingon (although hurt now) -- 9 great players -- despite only having 4 picks or less two out of the past three years, and no more than 6 in the past three years.

Out of those to me it looks like the Colts and Jets have the best FOs. Jets have traded up and stuff to get the players they wanted(like Sanchez) and traded for players and managed to make the most out of the fewest picks. Indy hit home runs on Garcon, Powers, Sessions, Bethea(really underrated IMO), Collie. MN's is pretty damn good too though with Rice and Edwards.

There were so many players I wanted in the last few years that we passed over. Carl Nicks, Desean Jackson, Manningham, Zack Follet(he got some snaps as a rookie in DET I think, plus he played in a 3-4 at Cal), Shonn Greene, Sammie Lee Hill, some more OLineman, etc. I realize not everyone pans out, not all those guys have panned out yet, but I don't think picking any of them would've made us too much worse off in the rounds they were picked.

On the other hand, this year we really better get some impact guys, not only in the first but later on as well. We have some holes that we need to fill, at the same time we need more GOOD players and play makers, with 3 of the top 64 picks it'd be a crime if we wasted even 2 of those on more crappy players. We need good players.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

McCloughan was named GM Jan of 2008, so we only have two drafts on which to judge him by.

2009
Crabtree is a definite playmaker
Cofee was a big reach and won't amount to much
McKillop was a great pick for a 5th round selection. Solid backup, decent STer and might work his way into the starting lineup eventually.
Davis--who knows what will happen with him but he was a 5th round choice and so wasn't a big reach
Pascoe--failure there. Granted it was the 6th round, but he managed to get signed on to another team
Jean-Francois--has lots of upside and could make a marke as a 7th round pick.

Not a spectacular draft by any means but very solid.


2008
Ballmer--not the production you want out of a 1st rounder. Might develop into something but who knows. Not a good move here
Rachal--2nd round OG who was projected as a 2nd rounder pre draft and has done a decent job and who improved dramtatically this year.
Smith--who knows. Got hurt and then didn't play much. Might turn out ok. Probably a reach for a 3rd.
Wallace--might turn into a good backup/replacement for Heitmann eventually. Saw his first playing time at the end of the season and did ok.
Morgan--turning into a very solid player and might make a decent #2.
Grant--never made the team. picked up by the Rams from the practice squad.

So I'd say that the 2009 draft was very good, the 2008 draft poor. Not really much to judge him on.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

The reason I feel this is subpar is because when I compare it to drafts of other teams, I see a team like Indianapolis getting multiple playmakers per draft, each year.

Over the past four years, the Colts have landed: RB Donald Brown, CB Jerraud Powers, WR Collie, WR Garcon, WR Gonzalez, OT Ugoh, LB Clint Session, OT Charlie Johnson, S Bethea, even return man CB Rushing. That's 10 key players right there.

How about the Vikings over 4 years: FS Tyrell Johnson, C Sullivan (has been outstanding as a rookie), WR Harvin, OT Loadholt, ILB Brinkley (played outstanding since entering lineup), RB Peterson, WR Rice, CB Griffin, DE Ray Edwards. That's 9.

Jets: Sanchez, Greene, TE Keller, CBs Lowery and Revis, ILB Harris, OL Ferguson and Mangold, and KR Leon Washingon (although hurt now) -- 9 great players -- despite only having 4 picks or less two out of the past three years, and no more than 6 in the past three years.

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment regarding the colts drafting. First you list Ugoh as a playmaker? They gave up a 1st round pick for Ugoh who played so poorly, he got beat out by an undrafted OT Charlie Johnson. Second, you list Garcon, Collie, Gonzales as playmakers. Funny, how they don't make many plays when Manning's not playing. They didn't make too many plays when Sorgi played QB. The Colts best move was to have the worst record in the NFL the year Peyton Manning was eligible to be drafted. Pure luck if you ask me.

I do agree with you regarding the Jets and Vikings. The Jets have particularly drafted well despite the pick of Gholston.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

McCloughan was named GM Jan of 2008, so we only have two drafts on which to judge him by.

2009
Crabtree is a definite playmaker
Cofee was a big reach and won't amount to much
McKillop was a great pick for a 5th round selection. Solid backup, decent STer and might work his way into the starting lineup eventually.
Davis--who knows what will happen with him but he was a 5th round choice and so wasn't a big reach
Pascoe--failure there. Granted it was the 6th round, but he managed to get signed on to another team
Jean-Francois--has lots of upside and could make a marke as a 7th round pick.

Not a spectacular draft by any means but very solid.


2008
Ballmer--not the production you want out of a 1st rounder. Might develop into something but who knows. Not a good move here
Rachal--2nd round OG who was projected as a 2nd rounder pre draft and has done a decent job and who improved dramtatically this year.
Smith--who knows. Got hurt and then didn't play much. Might turn out ok. Probably a reach for a 3rd.
Wallace--might turn into a good backup/replacement for Heitmann eventually. Saw his first playing time at the end of the season and did ok.
Morgan--turning into a very solid player and might make a decent #2.
Grant--never made the team. picked up by the Rams from the practice squad.

So I'd say that the 2009 draft was very good, the 2008 draft poor. Not really much to judge him on.


I actually thought Rachal was better last year.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

The reason I feel this is subpar is because when I compare it to drafts of other teams, I see a team like Indianapolis getting multiple playmakers per draft, each year.

Over the past four years, the Colts have landed: RB Donald Brown, CB Jerraud Powers, WR Collie, WR Garcon, WR Gonzalez, OT Ugoh, LB Clint Session, OT Charlie Johnson, S Bethea, even return man CB Rushing. That's 10 key players right there.

How about the Vikings over 4 years: FS Tyrell Johnson, C Sullivan (has been outstanding as a rookie), WR Harvin, OT Loadholt, ILB Brinkley (played outstanding since entering lineup), RB Peterson, WR Rice, CB Griffin, DE Ray Edwards. That's 9.

Jets: Sanchez, Greene, TE Keller, CBs Lowery and Revis, ILB Harris, OL Ferguson and Mangold, and KR Leon Washingon (although hurt now) -- 9 great players -- despite only having 4 picks or less two out of the past three years, and no more than 6 in the past three years.

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment regarding the colts drafting. First you list Ugoh as a playmaker? They gave up a 1st round pick for Ugoh who played so poorly, he got beat out by an undrafted OT Charlie Johnson. Second, you list Garcon, Collie, Gonzales as playmakers. Funny, how they don't make many plays when Manning's not playing. They didn't make too many plays when Sorgi played QB. The Colts best move was to have the worst record in the NFL the year Peyton Manning was eligible to be drafted. Pure luck if you ask me.

I do agree with you regarding the Jets and Vikings. The Jets have particularly drafted well despite the pick of Gholston.

Charlie Johnson wasn't undrafted actually. But aside from the one pick, I don't see how you can say Garcon and Collie haven't been making clutch plays. Just watching the guys all year they've done more than any of our guys combined aside from Crabtree.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Charlie Johnson wasn't undrafted actually. But aside from the one pick, I don't see how you can say Garcon and Collie haven't been making clutch plays. Just watching the guys all year they've done more than any of our guys combined aside from Crabtree.

They also have a future Hall of Famer throwing to them. That does make a big difference.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Charlie Johnson wasn't undrafted actually. But aside from the one pick, I don't see how you can say Garcon and Collie haven't been making clutch plays. Just watching the guys all year they've done more than any of our guys combined aside from Crabtree.

They also have a future Hall of Famer throwing to them. That does make a big difference.

Well of course it matters. They still have to make the plays when they have the opportunities. That is all I'm getting at. Many of our guys have not made plays given the opportunities.

Back to Charlie Johnson -- Caldwell's benching of Ugoh was extremely unpopular among fans because many felt Johnson had not outperformed him. However, Johnson played absolutely outstanding. So well, in fact, that they couldn't put Ugoh back in over him. Just a case of a great late round pick. It's not that Ugoh was all that bad, it's both that he was not giving the effort Caldwell was looking for and.. well.. Johnson was just that good.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 24, 2010 at 11:01 PM ]
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Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Charlie Johnson wasn't undrafted actually. But aside from the one pick, I don't see how you can say Garcon and Collie haven't been making clutch plays. Just watching the guys all year they've done more than any of our guys combined aside from Crabtree.

They also have a future Hall of Famer throwing to them. That does make a big difference.

Yes, but it also takes a WR to catch the balls. Garcon and Collie have performed their roles admirably and surprisingly well.

It certainly does help having the type of continuity on offense that the Colts have though...
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by tohara3:
I would really like to find away for the 49ers to get this guy in the 2nd round after getting Spiller & a RT in 1st round.

As long as we finally land some playmakers instead of a bunch of "solid depth" players, I'll be happy. But I have little faith in Scottie Mac. I shouldn't be able to compile better draft plans than him since he's being paid, yet for the past two years, that seems to be the case.

I really don't think his drafts have been all that bad. His FA moves haven't been all that hot, but his drafting has been at least a B if not a B+

I give Scot a C+ to B- at best. We need playmakers, not just solid contributors. Out of his past 4 drafts, how many can we really say that about? As far as 2008's draft, the best player from there so far has arguably been Morgan, and even he hasn't been very good overall, with many critical drops.

In 4 years, these are the playmakers we've nabbed: Crabtree, Willis, Goldson, Davis.

The reason I feel this is subpar is because when I compare it to drafts of other teams, I see a team like Indianapolis getting multiple playmakers per draft, each year.

Over the past four years, the Colts have landed: RB Donald Brown, CB Jerraud Powers, WR Collie, WR Garcon, WR Gonzalez, OT Ugoh, LB Clint Session, OT Charlie Johnson, S Bethea, even return man CB Rushing. That's 10 key players right there.

How about the Vikings over 4 years: FS Tyrell Johnson, C Sullivan (has been outstanding as a rookie), WR Harvin, OT Loadholt, ILB Brinkley (played outstanding since entering lineup), RB Peterson, WR Rice, CB Griffin, DE Ray Edwards. That's 9.

Jets: Sanchez, Greene, TE Keller, CBs Lowery and Revis, ILB Harris, OL Ferguson and Mangold, and KR Leon Washingon (although hurt now) -- 9 great players -- despite only having 4 picks or less two out of the past three years, and no more than 6 in the past three years.

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment regarding the colts drafting. First you list Ugoh as a playmaker? They gave up a 1st round pick for Ugoh who played so poorly, he got beat out by an undrafted OT Charlie Johnson. Second, you list Garcon, Collie, Gonzales as playmakers. Funny, how they don't make many plays when Manning's not playing. They didn't make too many plays when Sorgi played QB. The Colts best move was to have the worst record in the NFL the year Peyton Manning was eligible to be drafted. Pure luck if you ask me.

I do agree with you regarding the Jets and Vikings. The Jets have particularly drafted well despite the pick of Gholston.

Charlie Johnson wasn't undrafted actually. But aside from the one pick, I don't see how you can say Garcon and Collie haven't been making clutch plays. Just watching the guys all year they've done more than any of our guys combined aside from Crabtree.

Oh I didn't say Garcon and Collie haven't made plays. Just saying they wouldn't be making plays for us if they played for us with Hill at QB and Snyder at RT. I'm basically saying Peyton makes everyone look good. For example, today's game. Before the end of the first half. Collie goes deep, gains no separation yet Manning throws an absolutely perfect pass right over the outstretch arm of the defender. To Collie's credit, he caught the ball. But can you say he would make that catch if Hill or Smith threw the same pass? On the next play (the TD), noone guards Collie due to some miscommunication by the Jets. Manning of course finds him due to his intelligence and precision.

I honestly think Manning can make any WR a playmaker. Which WR has failed playing with Manning?