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FIRST THREE PICKS

Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
It's obvious how bias you are against Haden. We had this argument before and you posted youtube videos as your defense as to way Haden is not a great talent. That plays you provided (i believe there were only THREE plays), only ONE was his fault. The others, the defense was either playing a zone and the last play, he made a great play on the ball that would've been a touchdown had he not jumped the route.

Haden is a very good corner, but we all know he's not a shutdown corner. There's only one out there and that's Darelle Revis. It's very hard to find a true shutdown corner, or whatever that means. But Haden has great closing speed, he helps out in run support, and plays great in man to man.

Yeah my bias against him comes from watching the games he's played where he's not done well. He doesn't have great coverage and I've shown evidence as tow hy I think that's the case--yet nobody has shown me evidence to support their claim that he's going to be a star in the league. He does a decent to average job against college wide receivers. That's going to translate to a below average to poor job against NFL wide receivers. And people want to draft hi min the first round.

You seem to be the only one that thinks this and according to other draft bloggers or experts, he's considered top 15 in their overall draft rankings. Here is a short clip of some of his highlights:

If you look at around the 36 second mark in their game vs. Cincinnati, he bit on that flea flicker and displayed great acceleration to run back and break up the pass which could've been a touchdown.
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SF69ers:

You seem to be the only one that thinks this and according to other draft bloggers or experts, he's considered top 15 in their overall draft rankings. Here is a short clip of some of his highlights

Let's take a look at the top 5 CBs coming into the draft, so we can see both the good and the bad.

Joe Haden 2009 stats
45 tackles, 1 FF, 3 sacks, 8 PD



Donovan Warren 2009 stats
66 tackles, 4 INTs, 7 PD



Syd'Quan Thompson 2009 stats
48 tackles, 1 INT, 8 passes defended.



Patrick Robinson 2009 stats
46 tackles, 1 FF, 10 PD



Trevard Lindley 2009 stats
32 tackles, 1 INT, 7 PD (this despite missing 4 games)



Kyle Wilson 2009 stats
42 tackles, 1 sack, 3 INTs, 2 PD




The numbers are very similar across the board (except for Kyle Wilson, which is why he's the 5th ranked CB in the draft). The style of play is similar. The videos shows some of the same weaknesses and strengths. I just can't see Haden as being head and shoulders better than everybody else and worth of a top 15 pick while the next best slips to the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd.
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
OPTIMAL:

1) Joe Haden
2) Mike Iupati
3) Jerry Hughes

I think Haden will be an average CB in the NFL. Not someone worth spending a first round pick on.

Wow - that couldnt be further from the truth... There are many out there that feel he compares favorably to one Darrell Revis. While I wouldnt go that far, I certainly feel that he profiles as a future shut down corner certainly worthy of a 1st round pick - not to mention, he is fearless in terms of his run stopping ability.

Care to elaborate on your opinion?


I've elaborated several times on this. Watch Haden any time he faces a decent team. He gets beat often--he's especially vulnerable to a double move and the inside routes. Luckily Major Wright is an incredible safety and can bail him out. Watch Haden try to come up in run support. He misses tackles and is easily blocked.

By no means is he a shut-down corner. Not even close. Like I said I think he'll be average at best.

It's obvious how bias you are against Haden. We had this argument before and you posted youtube videos as your defense as to why Haden is not a great talent. That plays you provided (i believe there were only THREE plays), only ONE was his fault. The others, the defense was either playing a zone and the last play, he made a great play on the ball that would've been a touchdown had he not jumped the route.

Haden is a very good corner, but we all know he's not a shutdown corner. There's only one out there and that's Darelle Revis. It's very hard to find a true shutdown corner, or whatever that means. But Haden has great closing speed, he helps out in run support, and plays great in man to man.

Have you taken to quoting yourself now in agreement?
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
OPTIMAL:

1) Joe Haden
2) Mike Iupati
3) Jerry Hughes

I think Haden will be an average CB in the NFL. Not someone worth spending a first round pick on.

Wow - that couldnt be further from the truth... There are many out there that feel he compares favorably to one Darrell Revis. While I wouldnt go that far, I certainly feel that he profiles as a future shut down corner certainly worthy of a 1st round pick - not to mention, he is fearless in terms of his run stopping ability.

Care to elaborate on your opinion?


I've elaborated several times on this. Watch Haden any time he faces a decent team. He gets beat often--he's especially vulnerable to a double move and the inside routes. Luckily Major Wright is an incredible safety and can bail him out. Watch Haden try to come up in run support. He misses tackles and is easily blocked.

By no means is he a shut-down corner. Not even close. Like I said I think he'll be average at best.

It's obvious how bias you are against Haden. We had this argument before and you posted youtube videos as your defense as to why Haden is not a great talent. That plays you provided (i believe there were only THREE plays), only ONE was his fault. The others, the defense was either playing a zone and the last play, he made a great play on the ball that would've been a touchdown had he not jumped the route.

Haden is a very good corner, but we all know he's not a shutdown corner. There's only one out there and that's Darelle Revis. It's very hard to find a true shutdown corner, or whatever that means. But Haden has great closing speed, he helps out in run support, and plays great in man to man.

Have you taken to quoting yourself now in agreement?

LOL that was my mistake. I was trying to Edit something and didn't even realize I quoted myself.
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SF69ers:
Originally posted by smileyman:

Have you taken to quoting yourself now in agreement?

LOL that was my mistake. I was trying to Edit something and didn't even realize I quoted myself.

That's it, you're banned from the War Room.

Look, all I'm saying is that I don't think Haden is an elite CB. I'm not denying that he's the best CB to come out this year, but I don't think he'll be anything more than an average, (maybe slightly above average) CB in the NFL.

Definitely won't be a shut-down CB like some have said about him and definitely not a Darelle Revis type of player.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by SF69ers:

You seem to be the only one that thinks this and according to other draft bloggers or experts, he's considered top 15 in their overall draft rankings. Here is a short clip of some of his highlights

Let's take a look at the top 5 CBs coming into the draft, so we can see both the good and the bad.

Joe Haden 2009 stats
45 tackles, 1 FF, 3 sacks, 8 PD

Donovan Warren 2009 stats
66 tackles, 4 INTs, 7 PD

Syd'Quan Thompson 2009 stats
48 tackles, 1 INT, 8 passes defended

Patrick Robinson 2009 stats
46 tackles, 1 FF, 10 PD

Trevard Lindley 2009 stats
32 tackles, 1 INT, 7 PD (this despite missing 4 games)

Kyle Wilson 2009 stats
42 tackles, 1 sack, 3 INTs, 2 PD

The numbers are very similar across the board (except for Kyle Wilson, which is why he's the 5th ranked CB in the draft). The style of play is similar. The videos shows some of the same weaknesses and strengths. I just can't see Haden as being head and shoulders better than everybody else and worth of a top 15 pick while the next best slips to the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd.

Appreciate the videos smiley. I'm a fan of the majority of those corners especially Trevard Lindley, but none IMO is as physical or as well rounded as Haden. He enjoys bumping receivers, making plays in the backfield, and is a very quick blitzer. According to College Football Statistics, in 2009, Haden was credited with 68 total tackles, 15 of which came as assisted tackles. Along with the 3 sacks, he also had 5 tackles for losses which isn't bad at all for a corner. On top of that, he also had 4 interceptions.

Another corner that you forgot to include is Javier Arenas. Arenas is actually the corner i want in the draft and who I believe could be available for us in the 2nd round as our corner of the future as well as KO/PO. He had 70 total tackles, 25 of which were assisted. He also had 5 interceptions, 5 sacks, and ELEVEN tackles for losses. Arenas is my choice for our 2nd round pick.
Originally posted by GORO:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
OPTIMAL:

1) Joe Haden
2) Mike Iupati
3) Jerry Hughes

I think Haden will be an average CB in the NFL. Not someone worth spending a first round pick on.

Wow - that couldnt be further from the truth... There are many out there that feel he compares favorably to one Darrell Revis. While I wouldnt go that far, I certainly feel that he profiles as a future shut down corner certainly worthy of a 1st round pick - not to mention, he is fearless in terms of his run stopping ability.

Care to elaborate on your opinion?

P.S. If we do go with a tackle in the first round, my pick would be to go with Bulaga. I think he has more versatility than Williams and could certainly play LT in a pinch. His ability to get to the 2nd level while blocking in the run game is second to none.

Under that scenario, my top three are as follow:

1. Bryan Bulaga
2. Mike Iupati
3. Jerry Hughes

Hughes will be gone early in round 2 at the very least, since he is said to be a relentless pass rusher

Oh you certainly dont need to tell me... Ive been leading the Hughes bandwagon since last offseason. Im actually all for spending our 1st overall on him, but given our need of O-linemen, I posted an alternate top three in which Hughes is listed 3rd but would most likely require us to trade back into the 1st to get him.
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SF69ers:

Another corner that you forgot to include is Javier Arenas. Arenas is actually the corner i want in the draft and who I believe could be available for us in the 2nd round as our corner of the future as well as KO/PO. He had 70 total tackles, 25 of which were assisted. He also had 5 interceptions, 5 sacks, and ELEVEN tackles for losses. Arenas is my choice for our 2nd round pick.

I'm on board with that. I'd rather us pick up Arenas in the 2nd and double him for PR/KR instead of spending a first on Haden.
  • Stuuk
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 180
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by GORO:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
OPTIMAL:

1) Joe Haden
2) Mike Iupati
3) Jerry Hughes

I think Haden will be an average CB in the NFL. Not someone worth spending a first round pick on.

Wow - that couldnt be further from the truth... There are many out there that feel he compares favorably to one Darrell Revis. While I wouldnt go that far, I certainly feel that he profiles as a future shut down corner certainly worthy of a 1st round pick - not to mention, he is fearless in terms of his run stopping ability.

Care to elaborate on your opinion?

P.S. If we do go with a tackle in the first round, my pick would be to go with Bulaga. I think he has more versatility than Williams and could certainly play LT in a pinch. His ability to get to the 2nd level while blocking in the run game is second to none.

Under that scenario, my top three are as follow:

1. Bryan Bulaga
2. Mike Iupati
3. Jerry Hughes

Hughes will be gone early in round 2 at the very least, since he is said to be a relentless pass rusher

Oh you certainly dont need to tell me... Ive been leading the Hughes bandwagon since last offseason. Im actually all for spending our 1st overall on him, but given our need of O-linemen, I posted an alternate top three in which Hughes is listed 3rd but would most likely require us to trade back into the 1st to get him.

I think Hughes will be taken in the first round. A this stage he is comparable to what Larry English was last year.

In my opinion I think the 49ers will go:

Spiller
OT
CB
i dont want spiller i hope we go

haden or OT

if we go haden then OT if we go OT then iupathi or BPA

then with second rounder we should get gilyard he is not as good of a kick returner as spiller but is a much better punt returner
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by SF69ers:

Another corner that you forgot to include is Javier Arenas. Arenas is actually the corner i want in the draft and who I believe could be available for us in the 2nd round as our corner of the future as well as KO/PO. He had 70 total tackles, 25 of which were assisted. He also had 5 interceptions, 5 sacks, and ELEVEN tackles for losses. Arenas is my choice for our 2nd round pick.

I'm on board with that. I'd rather us pick up Arenas in the 2nd and double him for PR/KR instead of spending a first on Haden.

Arenas reminds me a lot of a younger Nate Clements. Very physical and doesn't mind making plays behind the line of scrimmage.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by GORO:
Scout Inc. on ESPN has EARL THOMAS listed at #12.

While Mel Kiper said this in his 2010 DRAFT PREVIEW;

He is the complete package at the saftey position. In coverage he's like having another corner on the field. He does a great job of reading the quarterback and has terrific ball skill (6) interceptions. He's also a very good tackler and is at his best in big games.

In summary; This guy if available at #13 will be hard to pass up.

I don't like him that much and IMO the need for Safety is somewhat overstated on this board.

Our needs our these.

1) OT
2) OG
3) KR/PR
4) CB
5) WR - yes we could use another one alongside Crabtree. Crabtree is the only real threat out there.
6) OLB - pass rusher. This is somewhat better with Brooks and Manny playing well this year. Better than I expected.
7) S - sure Safety is something we could look at. But Goldson and Lewis are more than capable for now.

Lewis had injury problems all season. and I never want to see mark roman again unless it's alex throwing a touchdown pass against him.
#13 Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers

#16 or #17 Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho

#49 Javier Arenas, CB/KR, Alabama



Originally posted by Hawaii49erfan:
My opinion has changed alot with the draft after reading everyone elses opinion. The one thing that has not changed is we need a right tackle, 1st pick Anthony Davis.
We need help in the secondary but with Hadden who I dont really like probably gone there is no one IMO worth taking at 16/17 at the CB position and as for Safety Berry is gone but I would be okay with Mays to replace Lewis at SS and leave Goldson at FS but no one wants Mays at 16/17 he would be a reach at that spot. As for Earl Thomas who I think would be great IMO at FS moving Goldson to SS which would make our secondary great with Spencer, and Clements coming back after injury with Bly/Brown at nickel. But still to high at that spot for most 9ers.
So in the end we fill our next need with a rush OLB in the 3-4 who fits this spot at 16/17, 2nd pick (1st round) Jerry Hughes.
I think we could go in a number of directions in the 2nd round with our 3rd pick. We could look for help in the secondary, continue to help the O-line, add a WR/KR etc... in the end we go with our 3rd pick Mardy Gilyard WR/KR

changing my mind again going with 1a Spiller, 1b Bulaga and #3 pick in the 2nd Reshad Jones SS
Goldson can stay at FS and Jones can slowly take over for Lewis at SS
S, OT and OLB have to may our main goals. Take the BPA at the pick.

We are going to end up with two of those three positions in the first round and none of us know in what order or who the player will be.