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Why not draft a RB in the First Round???

  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by tmg808:
There are two first round picks.. One I admit should be Offensive Line but starting 2 rookie OL would be dangerous. Just look at what happened to Jacksonville this year.

Spiller would be 1 of the 2 first rounders. 49ers aren't a rushing team because they only have 1 threat. No rushing QB, and Coffee wasn't the answer. There 4.3 average per carry is 11 in the league. The problem is Gore is getting the ball 25 to 30 times a game receiving and rushing, and nobody else feels the void when he leaves the field.

If we were a consistent running team even with Gore in the lineup. I would agree with you. But we weren't. Our backup RB's are a problem. But not a 1st pick worthy of a problem.

What about punt return/kickoff return/back up running back. Solve all three problems with 1 pick.. Is that worth 1st round???
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by BigRon:
Unless we fix the Oline, no RB will be of much difference. We have one NFL quality starter on the oline, Staley, and he missed more than half the season. Heitmann is a nice player but he is a back up. Baas, Rachal and Snyder need to be upgraded. There will be little activity this offseason in Free Agency due to the uncapped year so the need must be address in the draft.

You can't replace 3 o-lineman just via the draft and realistically expect them to play better than they did the year before. It takes time for lineman rookies/young players to learn the league, and of course, gel as a unit. To think you can plug in 2 rookie guards and a RT from the draft and things will be better is lunacy.

Here's what I think needs to be done:

LT - Staley needs to step up, but he's still the starter (re-sign Sims as a backup)
LG - Re-sign Baas to a 1 year-tender; draft his replacement in the 2nd or 3rd
C - Heitmann to start; see what Cody Wallace can do too
RG - Give Rachal another year to see if he can improve; Wragge as the backup
RT - Use a 1st rounder to find a starter; release Snyder

We weren't a bad rushing team because we had a bad o-line (we ranked 13th in yards per carry...compared to the much talked about Colts line, who only averaged 3.5 yards per carry)...we were a bad rushing team because we didn't run the ball enough (ranked 30th in attempts). We gave up on the run to many times...but when we kept at it, we did pretty well.

In terms of sacks, we gave up 40 for the year, which is actually a MAJOR improvement over the last 2 years (we gave up 55 sacks in both 2008 and 2007).

So though I'm not saying our line is great by any stretch, the truth is, this line isn't as bad as people think it is. Draft a starting RT, a backup to eventually replace Baas at LG and we should be ok. Not perfect, but definitely ok.

The REAL problem with this team is our QB...but that's another conversation.

On this topic I would like to see them birng in a veteran OG who is solid and can step in for Bass or Chilo if they continue to struggle.

Kinda of off topic for this discussion but do you think(I sure do) that smith's inability to play under center is just killing the Niners offensive? I thought that's where you were going with that last comment.
Actually, drafting Spiller would make some sense. He would solve our KR/PR issue, can spell at RB and also can line up at WR. Even if Coffee does morph into a good RB, you can never have too much speed (w/Talent, not a Al Davis dream).

If we could get our ROT first and then get Spiller I'd be okay.

While McCluskey can be had later, I fear he is Dexter Carter reincarnate.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by lamontb:
I like Cj spiller but in all honesty this offensive line needs to be addressed 1st and foremost. I don't think Spiller will be on the board when the Niners picks. Niners gonna have to find a speed guy that can contribute in the later rounds. The main problem with the teams rushing attack is the o line stinks. I think they reached for coffee last year. He's just an average back that they could have found in the 6th round. Look at that Howlings guy for the Cards, or Johnny Knox for the Bears. Not sure where they were picked but they both add great speed and have good return skills. I think they have to do there research and find a guy like that somewhere in the draft. If they take spiller I wouldn't be mad at all though.

Well I don't think the 49ers will draft 2 OL in the first round. RB has not been a high draft pick as of late in the draft. I seen someone say the Browns would draft him but I think they found there RB of the future. The Browns have a return man in Cribbs, they were 8th in the league in rushing. So Spiller there makes no sense. Every other team that isn't a top 5 pick doesn't need a RB before the 49ers pick so I do see him available unless the Raiders who are a wild card pick him..

True I don't think they should spend both picks on o line. and i think once Spiller posts a fast .40 time and folks watch the tape he won't make it to the niners 2nd 1st round pick. I wouldn't mind the guy at all.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by tmg808:
There are two first round picks.. One I admit should be Offensive Line but starting 2 rookie OL would be dangerous. Just look at what happened to Jacksonville this year.

Spiller would be 1 of the 2 first rounders. 49ers aren't a rushing team because they only have 1 threat. No rushing QB, and Coffee wasn't the answer. There 4.3 average per carry is 11 in the league. The problem is Gore is getting the ball 25 to 30 times a game receiving and rushing, and nobody else feels the void when he leaves the field.

If we were a consistent running team even with Gore in the lineup. I would agree with you. But we weren't. Our backup RB's are a problem. But not a 1st pick worthy of a problem.

What about punt return/kickoff return/back up running back. Solve all three problems with 1 pick.. Is that worth 1st round???

No. I guess I will be in the minority here but I don't spend a mid first round pick on a returner who can also be a back up. I know the argument about return field position, but I think you can get that much later in the draft.

Now, the argument that Spiller could be Frank's eventual replacement and could extend his career is more interesting. Torn on this one. I suspect Spiller will be gone when we pick so hey ho.
if dez bryant and Spiller are there at our second pick and we took O-line with the first pick, they would CLEARLY be BPA and scotty would prob pull the trigger! a return man is a HIGH priority and has been stated by coach many times! CJ addresses that as does Dez and Cj would be great 1-2 along with gore! It's also mentioned we need a burner WR, if they don't feel hill has that game speed, DEZ DOES!!
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by BigRon:
Unless we fix the Oline, no RB will be of much difference. We have one NFL quality starter on the oline, Staley, and he missed more than half the season. Heitmann is a nice player but he is a back up. Baas, Rachal and Snyder need to be upgraded. There will be little activity this offseason in Free Agency due to the uncapped year so the need must be address in the draft.

You can't replace 3 o-lineman just via the draft and realistically expect them to play better than they did the year before. It takes time for lineman rookies/young players to learn the league, and of course, gel as a unit. To think you can plug in 2 rookie guards and a RT from the draft and things will be better is lunacy.

Here's what I think needs to be done:

LT - Staley needs to step up, but he's still the starter (re-sign Sims as a backup)
LG - Re-sign Baas to a 1 year-tender; draft his replacement in the 2nd or 3rd
C - Heitmann to start; see what Cody Wallace can do too
RG - Give Rachal another year to see if he can improve; Wragge as the backup
RT - Use a 1st rounder to find a starter; release Snyder

We weren't a bad rushing team because we had a bad o-line (we ranked 13th in yards per carry...compared to the much talked about Colts line, who only averaged 3.5 yards per carry)...we were a bad rushing team because we didn't run the ball enough (ranked 30th in attempts). We gave up on the run to many times...but when we kept at it, we did pretty well.

In terms of sacks, we gave up 40 for the year, which is actually a MAJOR improvement over the last 2 years (we gave up 55 sacks in both 2008 and 2007).

So though I'm not saying our line is great by any stretch, the truth is, this line isn't as bad as people think it is. Draft a starting RT, a backup to eventually replace Baas at LG and we should be ok. Not perfect, but definitely ok.

The REAL problem with this team is our QB...but that's another conversation.

On this topic I would like to see them birng in a veteran OG who is solid and can step in for Bass or Chilo if they continue to struggle.

Kinda of off topic for this discussion but do you think(I sure do) that smith's inability to play under center is just killing the Niners offensive? I thought that's where you were going with that last comment.

Man, I would love for us to bring in a veteran OG...but I don't think McCloughan values that role enough to do that, and I doubt anyone of real value will be available given the lack of a new CBA. But yah, that would be the ideal route...veteran OG and rookie 1st round RT.

I definitely think Smith's inability to play well under center is hurting the offense. Teams know that when he's under center, it's going to be a run...at worst, if it is a pass, they know they can disguise their coverage/blitzes until the last second, because he's not shown the ability to consistently read/analyze what's going on at the line of scrimmage.

We either stick with Alex and commit to a shotgun-based offensive system or get a new QB.
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by BigRon:
Unless we fix the Oline, no RB will be of much difference. We have one NFL quality starter on the oline, Staley, and he missed more than half the season. Heitmann is a nice player but he is a back up. Baas, Rachal and Snyder need to be upgraded. There will be little activity this offseason in Free Agency due to the uncapped year so the need must be address in the draft.

You can't replace 3 o-lineman just via the draft and realistically expect them to play better than they did the year before. It takes time for lineman rookies/young players to learn the league, and of course, gel as a unit. To think you can plug in 2 rookie guards and a RT from the draft and things will be better is lunacy.

Here's what I think needs to be done:

LT - Staley needs to step up, but he's still the starter (re-sign Sims as a backup)
LG - Re-sign Baas to a 1 year-tender; draft his replacement in the 2nd or 3rd
C - Heitmann to start; see what Cody Wallace can do too
RG - Give Rachal another year to see if he can improve; Wragge as the backup
RT - Use a 1st rounder to find a starter; release Snyder

We weren't a bad rushing team because we had a bad o-line (we ranked 13th in yards per carry...compared to the much talked about Colts line, who only averaged 3.5 yards per carry)...we were a bad rushing team because we didn't run the ball enough (ranked 30th in attempts). We gave up on the run to many times...but when we kept at it, we did pretty well.

In terms of sacks, we gave up 40 for the year, which is actually a MAJOR improvement over the last 2 years (we gave up 55 sacks in both 2008 and 2007).

So though I'm not saying our line is great by any stretch, the truth is, this line isn't as bad as people think it is. Draft a starting RT, a backup to eventually replace Baas at LG and we should be ok. Not perfect, but definitely ok.

The REAL problem with this team is our QB...but that's another conversation.

On this topic I would like to see them birng in a veteran OG who is solid and can step in for Bass or Chilo if they continue to struggle.

Kinda of off topic for this discussion but do you think(I sure do) that smith's inability to play under center is just killing the Niners offensive? I thought that's where you were going with that last comment.

Man, I would love for us to bring in a veteran OG...but I don't think McCloughan values that role enough to do that, and I doubt anyone of real value will be available given the lack of a new CBA. But yah, that would be the ideal route...veteran OG and rookie 1st round RT.

I definitely think Smith's inability to play well under center is hurting the offense. Teams know that when he's under center, it's going to be a run...at worst, if it is a pass, they know they can disguise their coverage/blitzes until the last second, because he's not shown the ability to consistently read/analyze what's going on at the line of scrimmage.

We either stick with Alex and commit to a shotgun-based offensive system or get a new QB.

Get rid of the guy! But here's the problem...do what? Sell the farm for Bradford or Claussen? Chances are we get the second best, and don't get a chance to upgrade RT. Put a rookie behind Snyder? I'd rather not, but it's not undoable. We have recievers, a RB, and a good LT and C. Plus a good D. No reason the kid won't pull a Sanchez and do just enough to get by. But will he be an upgrade over Alex right away? No. And I don't think we have much more time to waste. Will Bradford even be able to play behind C anytime soon? FA is not an option. Campbell being the best option. No thank you. So how about trading for a QB? Kolb is my favorite option. But what will he cost?and how proven is he? Are the Eagles willing to deal him? All big big question marks. Are we going to put ourselves in a Matt Castle situation with a guy whose started very few games on a very good team? Alex is not the answer, but who is?
  • tap11
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 176
Originally posted by kronik:
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).

Amen brother. I really wish the lunacy of the "draft Spiller" mantra would disappear. I would love to get Holliday with a late pick, but drafting a rb in the first is poor value, and unrealistic (the brass doesn't seem interested, thank God).
Originally posted by tap11:
Originally posted by kronik:
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).

Amen brother. I really wish the lunacy of the "draft Spiller" mantra would disappear. I would love to get Holliday with a late pick, but drafting a rb in the first is poor value, and unrealistic (the brass doesn't seem interested, thank God).

That's what plenty of Titans fans thought when they drafted Chris Johnson, or when the Cowboys selected Felix Jones even though they already had a proven RB (Barber). You're right, you can typically get good RB value later in the draft....but you can't always get a RB that runs a 4.30, that also has the ability to catch passes out of the backfield, play in the slot and return kicks/punts. In other words, there's a reason why Spiller grades out as a 1st round back. He can do a lot of things that most backs can't, plus he's a high character guy.

Now, if all you care about is the 2010 needs, then sure...just blindly draft accordingly. But you don't know what will happen once the season starts...what if Frank gets hurt and you're stuck with Coffee to carry the load, or what if Spiller and Gore form a tandem that leads the league in rushing (which allows Alex to throw less), or what if Spiller becomes the next special teams star of the NFL????

I'm not saying we absolutely have to draft Spiller...I'm just saying, whoever does will not regret it (unlike the other 23 teams that passed on Chris Johnson). There are typically only a handful of playmakers like Spiller in every draft, and teams are learning the hard way that you'd better take them when you have the chance.

So IMO, there's nothing wrong with taking a RT and Spiller with our two 1st rounders. Both picks would have an impact far beyond just the 2010 season.
[ Edited by GoFD74 on Jan 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM ]
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by tap11:
Originally posted by kronik:
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).

Amen brother. I really wish the lunacy of the "draft Spiller" mantra would disappear. I would love to get Holliday with a late pick, but drafting a rb in the first is poor value, and unrealistic (the brass doesn't seem interested, thank God).

That's what plenty of Titans fans thought when they drafted Chris Johnson, or when the Cowboys selected Felix Jones even though they already had a proven RB (Barber). You're right, you can typically get good RB value later in the draft....but you can't always get a RB that runs a 4.30, that also has the ability to catch passes out of the backfield, play in the slot and return kicks/punts. In other words, there's a reason why Spiller grades out as a 1st round back. He can do a lot of things that most backs can't, plus he's a high character guy.

Now, if all you care about is the 2010 needs, then sure...just blindly draft accordingly. But you don't know what will happen once the season starts...what if Frank gets hurt and you're stuck with Coffee to carry the load, or what if Spiller and Gore form a tandem that leads the league in rushing (which allows Alex to throw less), or what if Spiller becomes the next special teams star of the NFL????

I'm not saying we absolutely have to draft Spiller...I'm just saying, whoever does will not regret it (unlike the other 23 teams that passed on Chris Johnson). There are typically only a handful of playmakers like Spiller in every draft, and teams are learning the hard way that you'd better take them when you have the chance.

So IMO, there's nothing wrong with taking a RT and Spiller with our two 1st rounders. Both picks would have an impact far beyond just the 2010 season.


look at Stewart and Williams in Carolina, both rushed for over 1000 yards this season both were 1st round picks
[ Edited by teeohh on Jan 5, 2010 at 12:28 PM ]
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by tap11:
Originally posted by kronik:
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).

Amen brother. I really wish the lunacy of the "draft Spiller" mantra would disappear. I would love to get Holliday with a late pick, but drafting a rb in the first is poor value, and unrealistic (the brass doesn't seem interested, thank God).

That's what plenty of Titans fans thought when they drafted Chris Johnson, or when the Cowboys selected Felix Jones even though they already had a proven RB (Barber). You're right, you can typically get good RB value later in the draft....but you can't always get a RB that runs a 4.30, that also has the ability to catch passes out of the backfield, play in the slot and return kicks/punts. In other words, there's a reason why Spiller grades out as a 1st round back. He can do a lot of things that most backs can't, plus he's a high character guy.

Now, if all you care about is the 2010 needs, then sure...just blindly draft accordingly. But you don't know what will happen once the season starts...what if Frank gets hurt and you're stuck with Coffee to carry the load, or what if Spiller and Gore form a tandem that leads the league in rushing (which allows Alex to throw less), or what if Spiller becomes the next special teams star of the NFL????

I'm not saying we absolutely have to draft Spiller...I'm just saying, whoever does will not regret it (unlike the other 23 teams that passed on Chris Johnson). There are typically only a handful of playmakers like Spiller in every draft, and teams are learning the hard way that you'd better take them when you have the chance.

So IMO, there's nothing wrong with taking a RT and Spiller with our two 1st rounders. Both picks would have an impact far beyond just the 2010 season.

I think the pick that had the Titans fans scratching their head was the pick of Chris Henry with the 2nd round the previous year. He was in no way a 2nd round pick and has proven to be a terrible pick. As for CJ, I doubt many Titans fans didn't like that pick. At that time, the Titans didn't have as many glaring holes as we do now. They could afford to take BPA. They've been to the playoffs many times recently and could afford to use a late 1st rounder on a playmaker. Can we afford to use the 13th or 16/17th pick overall? PS: We haven't been to the playoffs in a while.


Here are my thoughts of drafting Spiller:

First, Let's see if Spiller runs a 4.3 as you say. Not at a school workout or anything, but at the same track as others - The combine.

Second, you already label Coffee a bust after 1 year (a handful of carries)? As if he can't improve. He's already done? I don't know the answer to this, and neither does anyone else.

Third, I don't mind drafting Spiller. But if we do, I would want to trade Gore for a 2nd or 3rd while he still has good value.

Fourth, we also have problems with our secondary, particularly keeping up with fast WR's. You tell me how many fast pro bowl caliber secondary players are drafted after the 1st round.

Fifth, If we keep Gore, I'd like to target Jahvid Best in the 2nd if possible. If he's gone, then Holliday in the 6th round.
[ Edited by kronik on Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM ]
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by tap11:
Originally posted by kronik:
Why can't we use a 6th round pick on Trindin Holliday to solve the kick return issues? Why do we have to use a 1st? It's not like OL is our only hole. We also need some speed in our secondary and if you look at the NFL as a whole, great CB's are takened VERY EARLY in the drafts. It's very rare for a good CB to be selected in later rounds. You can get away with it if you run a tampa 2 style defense where your CB's don't need to have great speed but even those teams use high picks for their CB's (Aquib Tailb).

Amen brother. I really wish the lunacy of the "draft Spiller" mantra would disappear. I would love to get Holliday with a late pick, but drafting a rb in the first is poor value, and unrealistic (the brass doesn't seem interested, thank God).

That's what plenty of Titans fans thought when they drafted Chris Johnson, or when the Cowboys selected Felix Jones even though they already had a proven RB (Barber). You're right, you can typically get good RB value later in the draft....but you can't always get a RB that runs a 4.30, that also has the ability to catch passes out of the backfield, play in the slot and return kicks/punts. In other words, there's a reason why Spiller grades out as a 1st round back. He can do a lot of things that most backs can't, plus he's a high character guy.

Now, if all you care about is the 2010 needs, then sure...just blindly draft accordingly. But you don't know what will happen once the season starts...what if Frank gets hurt and you're stuck with Coffee to carry the load, or what if Spiller and Gore form a tandem that leads the league in rushing (which allows Alex to throw less), or what if Spiller becomes the next special teams star of the NFL????

I'm not saying we absolutely have to draft Spiller...I'm just saying, whoever does will not regret it (unlike the other 23 teams that passed on Chris Johnson). There are typically only a handful of playmakers like Spiller in every draft, and teams are learning the hard way that you'd better take them when you have the chance.

So IMO, there's nothing wrong with taking a RT and Spiller with our two 1st rounders. Both picks would have an impact far beyond just the 2010 season.

When Chris Johnson was drafted. I remember reading a quote saying the Titans planned on using him as a WR. Which was what they needed at the time. IUt just so hapens he was a beter runner then they gave him credit for.

Marion Barber had all of 3 starts prior to them drafting Jones. Granted he showed he could run but didn't show they he could be the workhorse as he was splitting time with J. Jones. With no interest in bringing back J. Jones. But even still their offense was a two back offense unlike ours.


Originally posted by teeohh:

look at Stewart and Williams in Carolina, both rushed for over 1000 yards this season both were 1st round picks


Same thing with the Stewart selection. Carolina already ran a two back offense with DeShaun and DeAngelo. With no interest in bringing back DeShaun.



If we were a running team and the RB's was the reason we aren't successful running the ball then I could understand the want of Spiller. But unlike the players/team mentioned in these 2 posts that's not what our offense is. Nor are we a perennial playoff team.


The best comparison would be Vikes with Chester Taylor drafting AD, Saints drafting Bush with Duece and Jags drafting MJD with Fred Taylor. These 3 teams were 1 back teams that had a RB and drafted one anyway.


But Spiller is no AD or Bush. Plus Frank Gore isn't as close to the end as Duece or Fred Taylor.
  • TX9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,146
I knew we'd see this reaction after Chris Johnson's season, the next guy who came along the soonest who even slightly resembled him would be vastly overvalued. I'm not knocking Spiller, but you guys do realize there has NEVER been a player like Johnson in the league before right? Are we so taken with CJfever that we think another Chris Johnson is coming along so soon? We're talking about the fastest guy to ever enter the league who's actually football fast. Those don't just come along every year. For every Chris Johnson, there's 100 Reggie Bushes who got that hype and haven't been near as good.