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OTC's Talent Tier Board

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I have added the following player to my 4-Round Board:

[b]NT Linval Joseph (East Carolina), who is a massive 6-5 322 (5.32), played terrific for East Carolina. I would be ecstatic to land him as a successor to Franklin. 3rd round grade.[/b]
Note: FS/DB Dennis Rogan (Tennessee) could elevate himself, but I see him as an early 5th right now.

Have him slated for my next mock. I think he and Ansah, which I had in my mock a couple ago would be big risers as the offseason progresses.
Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I have added the following player to my 4-Round Board:

[b]NT Linval Joseph (East Carolina), who is a massive 6-5 322 (5.32), played terrific for East Carolina. I would be ecstatic to land him as a successor to Franklin. 3rd round grade.[/b]
Note: FS/DB Dennis Rogan (Tennessee) could elevate himself, but I see him as an early 5th right now.

Have him slated for my next mock. I think he and Ansah, which I had in my mock a couple ago would be big risers as the offseason progresses.

It's possible, but if Joseph's current projection stays as it is, he figures to go somewhere between the middle of the 4th and 6th.
Is a R. Jones more valuable to a Mt. Cody or a G. Hardy, former first rounders in the second? I just don't see the value in this class with Jones at S at #49. Maybe it is a similar rise like Iupati where the talent is justified at that point?

Is Jones truly that good enough to bump a Cody or Hardy? If both are not there, then I can see it.

What do you think?
Originally posted by ninertico:
Is a R. Jones more valuable to a Mt. Cody or a G. Hardy, former first rounders in the second? I just don't see the value in this class with Jones at S at #49. Maybe it is a similar rise like Iupati where the talent is justified at that point?

Is Jones truly that good enough to bump a Cody or Hardy? If both are not there, then I can see it.

What do you think?

Absolutely. Cody is a 2-down, perhaps 1-down player at best in the NFL. He's useless against the pass, as even the slowest of QB's would be able to get away from the guy. He'll be a great goal-line, FG-block package guy, but if he can't get his weight under control, he won't be the kind of impact player that a Franklin, Wilfork, Jamal Williams, or even Kris Jenkins (who is way more athletic) can be.

I don't think people realize just how talented Jones really is. He may not go in the first round, but I like him much better than Cody and Hardy. Hardy's injury list is a mile long and if he can't stay healthy in college, I'm petrified to think he'll get it together in the pro's. Sure there are cases like with Gore where a player finally gets healthy in the NFL, but there are also a fair share of players whose injury history carried with them into the NFL.

Hardy and Jones have first round talent, but I project both to go in the 2nd-3rd. I'd take Jones over Hardy, but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted the other way around. It could work out if Greg didn't ever get hurt, but would we take that risk?

Honestly, I believe if we had the choice -- the guy Scot is probably hoping will fall in the 2nd is Chad Jones, but I just don't think he's going to make it to that pick.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 19, 2010 at 17:56:45 ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Is a R. Jones more valuable to a Mt. Cody or a G. Hardy, former first rounders in the second? I just don't see the value in this class with Jones at S at #49. Maybe it is a similar rise like Iupati where the talent is justified at that point?

Is Jones truly that good enough to bump a Cody or Hardy? If both are not there, then I can see it.

What do you think?

Absolutely. Cody is a 2-down, perhaps 1-down player at best in the NFL. He's useless against the pass, as even the slowest of QB's would be able to get away from the guy. He'll be a great goal-line, FG-block package guy, but if he can't get his weight under control, he won't be the kind of impact player that a Franklin, Wilfork, Jamal Williams, or even Kris Jenkins (who is way more athletic) can be.

I don't think people realize just how talented Jones really is. He may not go in the first round, but I like him much better than Cody and Hardy. Hardy's injury list is a mile long and if he can't stay healthy in college, I'm petrified to think he'll get it together in the pro's. Sure there are cases like with Gore where a player finally gets healthy in the NFL, but there are also a fair share of players whose injury history carried with them into the NFL.

Hardy and Jones have first round talent, but I project both to go in the 2nd-3rd. I'd take Jones over Hardy, but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted the other way around. It could work out if Greg didn't ever get hurt, but would we take that risk?

Honestly, I believe if we had the choice -- the guy Scot is probably hoping will fall in the 2nd is Chad Jones, but I just don't think he's going to make it to that pick.

I like that pick, he looks like a Michael Lewis type SS with better ball skills. His speed worries me a bit, I want to see how he times. I have him at 64 overall on my board.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Is a R. Jones more valuable to a Mt. Cody or a G. Hardy, former first rounders in the second? I just don't see the value in this class with Jones at S at #49. Maybe it is a similar rise like Iupati where the talent is justified at that point?

Is Jones truly that good enough to bump a Cody or Hardy? If both are not there, then I can see it.

What do you think?

Absolutely. Cody is a 2-down, perhaps 1-down player at best in the NFL. He's useless against the pass, as even the slowest of QB's would be able to get away from the guy. He'll be a great goal-line, FG-block package guy, but if he can't get his weight under control, he won't be the kind of impact player that a Franklin, Wilfork, Jamal Williams, or even Kris Jenkins (who is way more athletic) can be.

I don't think people realize just how talented Jones really is. He may not go in the first round, but I like him much better than Cody and Hardy. Hardy's injury list is a mile long and if he can't stay healthy in college, I'm petrified to think he'll get it together in the pro's. Sure there are cases like with Gore where a player finally gets healthy in the NFL, but there are also a fair share of players whose injury history carried with them into the NFL.

Hardy and Jones have first round talent, but I project both to go in the 2nd-3rd. I'd take Jones over Hardy, but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted the other way around. It could work out if Greg didn't ever get hurt, but would we take that risk?

Honestly, I believe if we had the choice -- the guy Scot is probably hoping will fall in the 2nd is Chad Jones, but I just don't think he's going to make it to that pick.

As always, thanks for the enlightenment.

Yea, I was looking at C. Jones as well because he seems like the perfect SS for us to pair with Goldson. But like you, I don't think he will make it. Beside this cat, who do you like at #49 and hope drops? Maybe two or three guys?

As a litmus test, the continuing mock gives us some insight as to how things might roll in the second. Do we even jump up for someone from #49 to take another legit 1st rounder since Scotty is known to want to do that at time?

Thanks again.

Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Is a R. Jones more valuable to a Mt. Cody or a G. Hardy, former first rounders in the second? I just don't see the value in this class with Jones at S at #49. Maybe it is a similar rise like Iupati where the talent is justified at that point?

Is Jones truly that good enough to bump a Cody or Hardy? If both are not there, then I can see it.

What do you think?

Absolutely. Cody is a 2-down, perhaps 1-down player at best in the NFL. He's useless against the pass, as even the slowest of QB's would be able to get away from the guy. He'll be a great goal-line, FG-block package guy, but if he can't get his weight under control, he won't be the kind of impact player that a Franklin, Wilfork, Jamal Williams, or even Kris Jenkins (who is way more athletic) can be.

I don't think people realize just how talented Jones really is. He may not go in the first round, but I like him much better than Cody and Hardy. Hardy's injury list is a mile long and if he can't stay healthy in college, I'm petrified to think he'll get it together in the pro's. Sure there are cases like with Gore where a player finally gets healthy in the NFL, but there are also a fair share of players whose injury history carried with them into the NFL.

Hardy and Jones have first round talent, but I project both to go in the 2nd-3rd. I'd take Jones over Hardy, but I wouldn't be upset if we drafted the other way around. It could work out if Greg didn't ever get hurt, but would we take that risk?

Honestly, I believe if we had the choice -- the guy Scot is probably hoping will fall in the 2nd is Chad Jones, but I just don't think he's going to make it to that pick.

As always, thanks for the enlightenment.

Yea, I was looking at C. Jones as well because he seems like the perfect SS for us to pair with Goldson. But like you, I don't think he will make it. Beside this cat, who do you like at #49 and hope drops? Maybe two or three guys?

As a litmus test, the continuing mock gives us some insight as to how things might roll in the second. Do we even jump up for someone from #49 to take another legit 1st rounder since Scotty is known to want to do that at time?

Thanks again.


It really depends on what our first picks are, really.

If say, we draft two OL in the first round, I think we look to address DB and Pass-rush next, but I also wouldn't rule out a top-flight WR either. I think Hill is beginning to run out his welcome and I'm starting to feel more and more like he may not make the final cut.

If Hill is ousted, with Bruce gone and Battle unlikely to return, we have Crabtree, Morgan, and Jones. We'd need another guy just to have 4 WR. And I don't think we're afraid to go into the season with just 4 since we seem to love throwing 2TE's out wide so often.

As far as jumping up, I don't know. It's hard to say, but I don't think it'll happen this year. I think we'll wait for someone to fall.
Underclassman CB Josh Moore of Kansas State has been added as a 4th round talent.

OLB Dexter Davis of Arizona State has been removed entirely. He's falling fast and word is that he is struggling severely in the transition to linebacker.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Underclassman CB Josh Moore of Kansas State has been added as a 4th round talent.

OLB Dexter Davis of Arizona State has been removed entirely. He's falling fast and word is that he is struggling severely in the transition to linebacker.

damn, he was at one point IMO a 2nd rd guy. I havent heard much from the Shrine Practices, anything stand out OTC?
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Underclassman CB Josh Moore of Kansas State has been added as a 4th round talent.

OLB Dexter Davis of Arizona State has been removed entirely. He's falling fast and word is that he is struggling severely in the transition to linebacker.

damn, he was at one point IMO a 2nd rd guy. I havent heard much from the Shrine Practices, anything stand out OTC?

I hear that Emmanuel Sanders of SMU is really turning heads. They say he looks like hands down the quickest receiver there, and I'm not surprised. I'd love it if we got him as a KR/PR as well as a potential slot guy here.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Underclassman CB Josh Moore of Kansas State has been added as a 4th round talent.

OLB Dexter Davis of Arizona State has been removed entirely. He's falling fast and word is that he is struggling severely in the transition to linebacker.

damn, he was at one point IMO a 2nd rd guy. I havent heard much from the Shrine Practices, anything stand out OTC?

I hear that Emmanuel Sanders of SMU is really turning heads. They say he looks like hands down the quickest receiver there, and I'm not surprised. I'd love it if we got him as a KR/PR as well as a potential slot guy here.

agreed OTC, i like Sanders, i have him in the 5th rd range, but with a good week and game and combine, he could see his stock rise.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Underclassman CB Josh Moore of Kansas State has been added as a 4th round talent.

OLB Dexter Davis of Arizona State has been removed entirely. He's falling fast and word is that he is struggling severely in the transition to linebacker.

damn, he was at one point IMO a 2nd rd guy. I havent heard much from the Shrine Practices, anything stand out OTC?

I hear that Emmanuel Sanders of SMU is really turning heads. They say he looks like hands down the quickest receiver there, and I'm not surprised. I'd love it if we got him as a KR/PR as well as a potential slot guy here.

agreed OTC, i like Sanders, i have him in the 5th rd range, but with a good week and game and combine, he could see his stock rise.

Same, 4th-5th is just about right. Incredibly productive, versatile, quick. All good things. Guys like Jarrett Dillard had the production, but not the speed or versatility and I believe he went in the 5th (have to check that one).


Edit: List has been updated -- Some players moving around, some removed.

Updates

Up: DE Lindsey Witten -- 4th to 3rd. And DT Torrell Troup from 4th to 3rd.
Down: OLB Willie Young -- 2nd to 4th.

Add: WR Emannuel Sanders (4th), DT Corey Peters. Two guys who should've been here already but I missed them.
Remove: CB Sherrick McManis (Downgraded to 5th, removed from list).

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 22, 2010 at 16:50:07 ]
I have removed Stephan Virgil and relegated him to a 5th round talent. He seemed to be the main guy who struggled to stay with his man in the East-West Shrine game.
I see Trent Williams & Brandon LaFell dropped out of senior bowl. How do you think this will affect their draft stock?
Originally posted by tohara3:
I see Trent Williams & Brandon LaFell dropped out of senior bowl. How do you think this will affect their draft stock?

Saw it coming. If Trent cannot demonstrate something outstanding in his workouts, he's going to fall to the last half of the 1st.

LaFell, however, is probably going to stick to being a solid 2nd rounder. I honestly do not feel he will be drafted in the first round unless he torches the turf at the combine. He's not a bad player at all, but I see him as more of an early 2nd round player.

Looking at Mardy Gilyard, I think some teams are going to be scared because he's thin. He's immensely talented, but could drop to the 2nd or at the very worst the 3rd round. I still have seen plenty to label him as a definite 1st-round talent, but projection wise, he should go in the 2nd. I would be quite happy to land him there. Dezmon Briscoe is another player I like in the 2nd to 3rd rounds as well.