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MadDog's Winter Solstice First Round Mock

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Great stuff throughout the thread, MadDog.

One question though...is this going to be the umpteenth year in a row that I am pissed off that we haven't addressed our pass rush?

To me, if the Niners pull off the last two wins, finish 8-8, and drop into that 15th area with their own pick, and if Spiller and Haden are off the board (as expected), then the team has to take a serious look at a pass rusher or Iupati.

Of course, the team may not feel there is good value at 15 for a pass rusher. I expect Brandon Graham to be a first rounder, but toward the bottom. He is this year's version of Orakpo, in the sense that the guy is a MAN. Very mature, very much ready to play in the NFL.
Originally posted by mayo63:
What if instead of Haden we take Dez Bryant to team up with Crabtree then go Cb in the 2nd round. Now, that would be a hell of a first round.

I would not be disappointed. However, I just can't see the Niners drafting a WR early in the draft, since they seem married to the 2 WR-2 TE sets. The only WR's hitting the field will be Crabtree and Morgan for the vast majority of plays.
How good is Trent Williams really? I have heard different opinions. I am inclined to take him because the fit is so good, but is he really legit?
Originally posted by bergy07:
MD is it just me or does it seem like after the 9ers selected Lawson, and to this point have gotten a so-so performance from rushing the QB in terms of sacks from him, they are leaning more towards taking the time to develop journey men / late round prospects (A. Brooks, D. Briggs, P. Haralson) than they are to draft a Brian Orakpo type player early in the drafts to follow?

Do you think they can still be a dominant defense without a 'superstar' pass rusher?

I love Lawson, but at this point he needs to be traded. He simply is not a 3-4 OLB.
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by mayo63:
What if instead of Haden we take Dez Bryant to team up with Crabtree then go Cb in the 2nd round. Now, that would be a hell of a first round.

I would not be disappointed. However, I just can't see the Niners drafting a WR early in the draft, since they seem married to the 2 WR-2 TE sets. The only WR's hitting the field will be Crabtree and Morgan for the vast majority of plays.

Yeah, but who would you rather have, Morgan or Bryant?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Great stuff throughout the thread, MadDog.

One question though...is this going to be the umpteenth year in a row that I am pissed off that we haven't addressed our pass rush?

To me, if the Niners pull off the last two wins, finish 8-8, and drop into that 15th area with their own pick, and if Spiller and Haden are off the board (as expected), then the team has to take a serious look at a pass rusher or Iupati.

Of course, the team may not feel there is good value at 15 for a pass rusher. I expect Brandon Graham to be a first rounder, but toward the bottom. He is this year's version of Orakpo, in the sense that the guy is a MAN. Very mature, very much ready to play in the NFL.

I agree that pass rush is a need. Singletary's gotta on the lookout for linebackers who attack the ball like he did in his day, and i just don't see that in haralson and lawson.

The flip-side to this is that other teams WR's always seem to get open easier than ours. Can our db's hold up long enough for said pass-rusher to have time to get to the QB?

For a team with playoff aspirations they still have a lot of holes to fill. Hopefully free agency will help.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Originally posted by bergy07:
MD is it just me or does it seem like after the 9ers selected Lawson, and to this point have gotten a so-so performance from rushing the QB in terms of sacks from him, they are leaning more towards taking the time to develop journey men / late round prospects (A. Brooks, D. Briggs, P. Haralson) than they are to draft a Brian Orakpo type player early in the drafts to follow?

Do you think they can still be a dominant defense without a 'superstar' pass rusher?

I love Lawson, but at this point he needs to be traded. He simply is not a 3-4 OLB.

what are scott mcloughan's criteria for an outside linebacker???? i mean. i heard one reason they traded to panthers rather than taking everette brown was that brown did not have right build or criteria to play outside linebacker in niners 3-4
Originally posted by bigwads:
How good is Trent Williams really? I have heard different opinions. I am inclined to take him because the fit is so good, but is he really legit?

I think he is very legit as a RT. Probably the best run blocking OT in the draft, and is nimble enough to man the right side. I just don't think he's the best LT prospect.
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by mayo63:
What if instead of Haden we take Dez Bryant to team up with Crabtree then go Cb in the 2nd round. Now, that would be a hell of a first round.

I would not be disappointed. However, I just can't see the Niners drafting a WR early in the draft, since they seem married to the 2 WR-2 TE sets. The only WR's hitting the field will be Crabtree and Morgan for the vast majority of plays.

Yeah, but who would you rather have, Morgan or Bryant?

Bryant, of course. But, I don't think the Niners are even going to sniff Bryant this year.
Originally posted by bzborow1:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Great stuff throughout the thread, MadDog.

One question though...is this going to be the umpteenth year in a row that I am pissed off that we haven't addressed our pass rush?

To me, if the Niners pull off the last two wins, finish 8-8, and drop into that 15th area with their own pick, and if Spiller and Haden are off the board (as expected), then the team has to take a serious look at a pass rusher or Iupati.

Of course, the team may not feel there is good value at 15 for a pass rusher. I expect Brandon Graham to be a first rounder, but toward the bottom. He is this year's version of Orakpo, in the sense that the guy is a MAN. Very mature, very much ready to play in the NFL.

I agree that pass rush is a need. Singletary's gotta on the lookout for linebackers who attack the ball like he did in his day, and i just don't see that in haralson and lawson.

The flip-side to this is that other teams WR's always seem to get open easier than ours. Can our db's hold up long enough for said pass-rusher to have time to get to the QB?

For a team with playoff aspirations they still have a lot of holes to fill. Hopefully free agency will help.

Hence, the age old question: Is the problem the pass rush or coverage? I think it is a combination of both, but a great pass rush can make a mediocre secondary look good. It is difficult the other way around.
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Originally posted by bergy07:
MD is it just me or does it seem like after the 9ers selected Lawson, and to this point have gotten a so-so performance from rushing the QB in terms of sacks from him, they are leaning more towards taking the time to develop journey men / late round prospects (A. Brooks, D. Briggs, P. Haralson) than they are to draft a Brian Orakpo type player early in the drafts to follow?

Do you think they can still be a dominant defense without a 'superstar' pass rusher?

I love Lawson, but at this point he needs to be traded. He simply is not a 3-4 OLB.

what are scott mcloughan's criteria for an outside linebacker???? i mean. i heard one reason they traded to panthers rather than taking everette brown was that brown did not have right build or criteria to play outside linebacker in niners 3-4

I believe I read one of the beat writers state that Brown was graded a third rounder by the team. So, the team was not going to be able to draft him.

And, looking back, the team was probably right. He just doesn't look comfortable in the NFL, and his productivity has been really low.

I'm not sure what the team is looking for in a Will or Sam backer. The team thought they could convert Manny into their prime rush backer out of college, and it just hasn't worked out. He's simply much better in a 4-3 scheme. The team seems pretty high on Brooks, so I think they are going to bypass the position once again in the draft.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by mayo63:
What if instead of Haden we take Dez Bryant to team up with Crabtree then go Cb in the 2nd round. Now, that would be a hell of a first round.

I would not be disappointed. However, I just can't see the Niners drafting a WR early in the draft, since they seem married to the 2 WR-2 TE sets. The only WR's hitting the field will be Crabtree and Morgan for the vast majority of plays.

Yeah, but who would you rather have, Morgan or Bryant?

Bryant, of course. But, I don't think the Niners are even going to sniff Bryant this year.


MD:
How do you compare Gilyard and Bryant?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by jreff22:
MD when all is said and done should we say f**k it and move up for Berry? Dump him at FS slide Goldson into SS and call it a day.

Also
In the above draft scenario, the Niners still need help at the PR position. However, I'm not sure they will pick up a WR to fill that role. I'd expect a 4th rounder at CB/PR to fill that role.

After the last few games its blatantly apparent that we need serious game speed on both sides of the ball. Why not go after a burner to play to slot and return kicks?

Our offense is heavily geared toward a 2-WR, 2-TE set. So, we simply don't have the burner on the field. As we saw yesterday, the team put Hill on the field for only a few plays. Walker plays a ton.

As for sending both picks to a team in the top 5 picks: I know a team up at the top of the board would love to move down. Most do. But, the Niners would need to secure a solid FA OT first. They are not going to walk away from the first round w/o a new starter at RT, and I sincerely doubt they roll the dice hoping a player will be on the board in the second round.

How do you expect us to address FA this year. Personally I think this is Scotty's last year to really make a statement in FA and the draft because if we miss the playoffs again he's gonna be gone. Going after a legit OG and OT and using the draft to pickup pure skill players seems fine to me. Having the chance to go after a combination of Spiller, Haden, Berry (fingers crossed), McClain, Graham, even Bryant would be hard to pass up. Does it make sense to bite the bullet and spend the cash on Mankins and ? at ROT?

If Berry fell to say 8ish could you see us trading up then?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by bigwads:
How good is Trent Williams really? I have heard different opinions. I am inclined to take him because the fit is so good, but is he really legit?

I think he is very legit as a RT. Probably the best run blocking OT in the draft, and is nimble enough to man the right side. I just don't think he's the best LT prospect.

Great. He should be available when we pick then. Add Williams and Mankins in FA and we would have a smashing OL next year.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Originally posted by bergy07:
MD is it just me or does it seem like after the 9ers selected Lawson, and to this point have gotten a so-so performance from rushing the QB in terms of sacks from him, they are leaning more towards taking the time to develop journey men / late round prospects (A. Brooks, D. Briggs, P. Haralson) than they are to draft a Brian Orakpo type player early in the drafts to follow?

Do you think they can still be a dominant defense without a 'superstar' pass rusher?

I love Lawson, but at this point he needs to be traded. He simply is not a 3-4 OLB.

what are scott mcloughan's criteria for an outside linebacker???? i mean. i heard one reason they traded to panthers rather than taking everette brown was that brown did not have right build or criteria to play outside linebacker in niners 3-4

I believe I read one of the beat writers state that Brown was graded a third rounder by the team. So, the team was not going to be able to draft him.

And, looking back, the team was probably right. He just doesn't look comfortable in the NFL, and his productivity has been really low.

I'm not sure what the team is looking for in a Will or Sam backer. The team thought they could convert Manny into their prime rush backer out of college, and it just hasn't worked out. He's simply much better in a 4-3 scheme. The team seems pretty high on Brooks, so I think they are going to bypass the position once again in the draft.

I think everyone was hoping that he would gain weight which simply hasn't happened.