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Expect a trade on draft day

Originally posted by GoFD74:
I can possibly see a trade up for someone like Berry or Okung, but really can't see us trading back and stockpiling picks. If the new CBA doesn't get done and some of our vets are only RFAs (like Baas), that will leave us with very few starting jobs open next year.

Even more so, if we tag Franklin and re-sign guys like Spikes, Bly and Sims (and none would be overly expensive), and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) we'll have pretty good depth in most areas. And that's if we don't sign any outside free agents.

At that point, RT would be the only clearly open position, with depth really needed at ILB, safety, 5th WR (special teams) and maybe OLB. The rest seem to be more luxury picks.

QB depth: Smith, Davis, Hill
RB/FB depth: Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Norris, Miller
WR depth: Crabtree, Morgan, Jones, Hill (1 more needed)
C/OG depth: Heitmann, Wallace, Rachal, Baas, Wragge (1 more needed to eventually replace Baas)
OT depth: Staley, Snyder, Sims, Boone (RT starter needed)
TE depth: Davis, Walker, Finley

D-line depth: Franklin, JSmith, McDonald, Balmer, Sopoaga, RJF, Mitchell
OLB depth: Lawson, Haralson, Brooks, Briggs (1 more needed for competition)
ILB depth: Willis, Spikes, McKillop (1 more needed)
CB depth: Clements, Spencer, Brown, Bly, Hudson (1 more needed for competition)
Safety depth: Goldson, Lewis, RSmith, Taylor (possible starting SS needed)

So we probably have 7 roster spots open with realistically only 1 starting role available (RT) and maybe a starting SS (though a rookie isn't likely to start over Lewis)...and right now, we already have 8 picks (and possibly 1-2 more with comp picks).

In other words, I don't see us stockpiling picks and filling our roster with warm bodies like we had to in the past.

If we move up it has to be for Berry. Actually if we traded a 1st and 2nd...trading back with our other 1st would be wise to re-pickup another 2nd. Maybe we can screw somebody and offer a 1st and 3rd.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I can possibly see a trade up for someone like Berry or Okung, but really can't see us trading back and stockpiling picks. If the new CBA doesn't get done and some of our vets are only RFAs (like Baas), that will leave us with very few starting jobs open next year.

Even more so, if we tag Franklin and re-sign guys like Spikes, Bly and Sims (and none would be overly expensive), and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) we'll have pretty good depth in most areas. And that's if we don't sign any outside free agents.

At that point, RT would be the only clearly open position, with depth really needed at ILB, safety, 5th WR (special teams) and maybe OLB. The rest seem to be more luxury picks.

QB depth: Smith, Davis, Hill
RB/FB depth: Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Norris, Miller
WR depth: Crabtree, Morgan, Jones, Hill (1 more needed)
C/OG depth: Heitmann, Wallace, Rachal, Baas, Wragge (1 more needed to eventually replace Baas)
OT depth: Staley, Snyder, Sims, Boone (RT starter needed)
TE depth: Davis, Walker, Finley

D-line depth: Franklin, JSmith, McDonald, Balmer, Sopoaga, RJF, Mitchell
OLB depth: Lawson, Haralson, Brooks, Briggs (1 more needed for competition)
ILB depth: Willis, Spikes, McKillop (1 more needed)
CB depth: Clements, Spencer, Brown, Bly, Hudson (1 more needed for competition)
Safety depth: Goldson, Lewis, RSmith, Taylor (possible starting SS needed)

So we probably have 7 roster spots open with realistically only 1 starting role available (RT) and maybe a starting SS (though a rookie isn't likely to start over Lewis)...and right now, we already have 8 picks (and possibly 1-2 more with comp picks).

In other words, I don't see us stockpiling picks and filling our roster with warm bodies like we had to in the past.

If we move up it has to be for Berry. Actually if we traded a 1st and 2nd...trading back with our other 1st would be wise to re-pickup another 2nd. Maybe we can screw somebody and offer a 1st and 3rd.

i agree with this berry FS golson SS
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I think it could be good depending on what we get. We go OT 1st, trade back and get a pass rusher and Iapati in some order with an extra pick. That would be gold.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

If memory serves right he will be expensive next year but then the numbers go down a bit the following years.

Also he is better then Bly and Brown.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

Really? Link, please.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.

Mike Singletary, quoted prior to week eight against the Indianapolis Colts.

Quote:
"I think for Tarell Brown, it's just something all the way from training camp, just trying to get him back in the mix and trying to get him on the field more to play more," Singletary said. "It was just a shame, kind of like [WR] Brandon Jones when Brandon got hurt. They were both doing a great job making strides and had a setback."

"I think Tarell Brown has worked himself in a situation to try and get more playing time," Singletary said. "So it's just something that we have to monitor as coaches and really try and put him in the best position to win."

Admittedly, I don't have any quote from Singletary regarding Bly.

Restructuring Clements deal would be a terrible idea. Do you really believe Scot McCloughan would want to return to salary cap deferment after the team just left them?
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.

Mike Singletary, quoted prior to week eight against the Indianapolis Colts.

Quote:
"I think for Tarell Brown, it's just something all the way from training camp, just trying to get him back in the mix and trying to get him on the field more to play more," Singletary said. "It was just a shame, kind of like [WR] Brandon Jones when Brandon got hurt. They were both doing a great job making strides and had a setback."

"I think Tarell Brown has worked himself in a situation to try and get more playing time," Singletary said. "So it's just something that we have to monitor as coaches and really try and put him in the best position to win."

Admittedly, I don't have any quote from Singletary regarding Bly.

Restructuring Clements deal would be a terrible idea. Do you really believe Scot McCloughan would want to return to salary cap deferment after the team just left them?

This quotation does not support your comment.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.

Mike Singletary, quoted prior to week eight against the Indianapolis Colts.

Quote:
"I think for Tarell Brown, it's just something all the way from training camp, just trying to get him back in the mix and trying to get him on the field more to play more," Singletary said. "It was just a shame, kind of like [WR] Brandon Jones when Brandon got hurt. They were both doing a great job making strides and had a setback."

"I think Tarell Brown has worked himself in a situation to try and get more playing time," Singletary said. "So it's just something that we have to monitor as coaches and really try and put him in the best position to win."

Admittedly, I don't have any quote from Singletary regarding Bly.

Restructuring Clements deal would be a terrible idea. Do you really believe Scot McCloughan would want to return to salary cap deferment after the team just left them?

This quotation does not support your comment.

+1.

And restructuring Nate's contract would be a GREAT idea, IMO.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.

Mike Singletary, quoted prior to week eight against the Indianapolis Colts.

Quote:
"I think for Tarell Brown, it's just something all the way from training camp, just trying to get him back in the mix and trying to get him on the field more to play more," Singletary said. "It was just a shame, kind of like [WR] Brandon Jones when Brandon got hurt. They were both doing a great job making strides and had a setback."

"I think Tarell Brown has worked himself in a situation to try and get more playing time," Singletary said. "So it's just something that we have to monitor as coaches and really try and put him in the best position to win."

Admittedly, I don't have any quote from Singletary regarding Bly.

Restructuring Clements deal would be a terrible idea. Do you really believe Scot McCloughan would want to return to salary cap deferment after the team just left them?

This quotation does not support your comment.

+1.

And restructuring Nate's contract would be a GREAT idea, IMO.

Yah, I didn't mean to restructure the ENTIRE deal...just that $8M+ for 2010...so we're only talking about $4M-6M extra over spread out over the remaining years of the contract.

Not a big deal at all.

Not to mention, didn't Brown just recently get benched because of HIS poor play? Just saying....

[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 18, 2009 at 09:56:58 ]
if we trade up for berry i'll be happy. if we trade down and spiller is on the board and then gets scooped up before we draft again i'll be highly upset
Every year there are tons of people that want us to trade down to get more picks. I can tell you that basically every teams fans want their team to trade down to get more picks.

It might happen, but honestly from where we pick in the draft for a team to want to trade up there must be a playmaking talented player or someone a team just absolutely loves.

Honestly, if a team wants to trade up to get the playmaking talent then I would rather just pick that player with our pick. In the case of a team trading up to get a player that they really like, we would basically have to trade back towards the end of the first round to get a second round pick out of it and with the way Scot is known for blowing 3rd rounders I don't know if I would want him to trade down a few slots in the first for a third.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
... and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) ...

I'd like an explanation on why the 49ers keeping Clements is extremely likely.

He's due $8,166,666 next season. He was benched prior to his injury. Singletary has open accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior to Clements.

You mean besides the fact that he's our best overall CB (which says more about our corners than it does Nate)? I admit the money part is problematic, but he can always restructure his deal to lower that cap figure (he still gets his money, and the cap hit is spread out on the back end).

Now your turn on when/where Singletary open (sic) accepted the fact that Brown and Bly are both superior.

Mike Singletary, quoted prior to week eight against the Indianapolis Colts.

Quote:
"I think for Tarell Brown, it's just something all the way from training camp, just trying to get him back in the mix and trying to get him on the field more to play more," Singletary said. "It was just a shame, kind of like [WR] Brandon Jones when Brandon got hurt. They were both doing a great job making strides and had a setback."

"I think Tarell Brown has worked himself in a situation to try and get more playing time," Singletary said. "So it's just something that we have to monitor as coaches and really try and put him in the best position to win."

Admittedly, I don't have any quote from Singletary regarding Bly.

Restructuring Clements deal would be a terrible idea. Do you really believe Scot McCloughan would want to return to salary cap deferment after the team just left them?

This quotation does not support your comment.

+1.

And restructuring Nate's contract would be a GREAT idea, IMO.

Yah, I didn't mean to restructure the ENTIRE deal...just that $8M+ for 2010...so we're only talking about $4M-6M extra over spread out over the remaining years of the contract.

Not a big deal at all.

Not to mention, didn't Brown just recently get benched because of HIS poor play? Just saying....

The quotation was in reference to a question regarding Nate Clement's demotion to nickle defensive back prior to breaking his collarbone. If you can't take the quote with Singletary's decision to demote Clements and start Brown as favored, then I can't help you.

Clements is due a substantial base salary increase over the next three seasons. He'd be less inclined to covert base salary into bonus money with the uncertainty of an uncapped year in 2010. Also, teams don't restructure just one year of a deal.

This isn't Madden Football.

Assuming 2010 is uncapped, they'll either pay Clements his full salary or dump him. Restructuring his deal now would only compound his strain on the organization's funds long term.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I can possibly see a trade up for someone like Berry or Okung, but really can't see us trading back and stockpiling picks. If the new CBA doesn't get done and some of our vets are only RFAs (like Baas), that will leave us with very few starting jobs open next year.

Even more so, if we tag Franklin and re-sign guys like Spikes, Bly and Sims (and none would be overly expensive), and keep Clements (which is EXTREMELY likely) we'll have pretty good depth in most areas. And that's if we don't sign any outside free agents.

At that point, RT would be the only clearly open position, with depth really needed at ILB, safety, 5th WR (special teams) and maybe OLB. The rest seem to be more luxury picks.

QB depth: Smith, Davis, Hill
RB/FB depth: Gore, Coffee, Robinson, Norris, Miller
WR depth: Crabtree, Morgan, Jones, Hill (1 more needed)
C/OG depth: Heitmann, Wallace, Rachal, Baas, Wragge (1 more needed to eventually replace Baas)
OT depth: Staley, Snyder, Sims, Boone (RT starter needed)
TE depth: Davis, Walker, Finley

D-line depth: Franklin, JSmith, McDonald, Balmer, Sopoaga, RJF, Mitchell
OLB depth: Lawson, Haralson, Brooks, Briggs (1 more needed for competition)
ILB depth: Willis, Spikes, McKillop (1 more needed)
CB depth: Clements, Spencer, Brown, Bly, Hudson (1 more needed for competition)
Safety depth: Goldson, Lewis, RSmith, Taylor (possible starting SS needed)

So we probably have 7 roster spots open with realistically only 1 starting role available (RT) and maybe a starting SS (though a rookie isn't likely to start over Lewis)...and right now, we already have 8 picks (and possibly 1-2 more with comp picks).

In other words, I don't see us stockpiling picks and filling our roster with warm bodies like we had to in the past.

It's about updating over the "Depth" guys. Not just being satisfied with what we've got. We want improvement. Weed out the underperformers or those who don't get on the field. Guys like RJF and Mitchell can still develop on the PS, at the very least.

But key upgrades and players that must be attained are:

S, OG, OT, CB, WR, ILB, OLB, DL - That's 8 picks. Exactly how many we currently have. Adding in a RB would be a luxury. But I bet you Coffee improves by leaps and bounds in his second year. I like how we're using him a little bit more as a 3rd-down back now. He seems to be getting better at blocking too. With time, Coffee will be starter-material.

Note: (One or both of those CB or WR should be a returner). I hope we draft similarly to what I've written there above.

I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying we shouldn't upgrade our depth...I mean, every year, you're either getting better or you're getting worse so that wasn't my point at all. And the best way to get better is to have competition.

It was more a commentary about stockpiling picks. I think we're in a position now that we have decent depth and we can use those 8 picks (or maybe more if we get comps) to add to the roster instead of moving back because we just need extra warm bodies (as was the case in the past).

IMO, it's now more about adding quality and not quantity.

I like the quality, not quantity idea. The one quality I think all our picks should have in common is speed.

Only position I would add to the list is 3rd TE, but that kind of player can be found cheaply in free agency or as an UDFA.