a case for taking dez bryant if available

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

And what am I looking at? A team that hasn't won a superbowl and likely never will.

Receivers don't win you championships. It's lunacy to draft another top 10 receiver when we have so many other holes which are much more pressing. Josh Morgan is a very capable #2 guy and we can draft a quick slot guy later in the draft.

Larry Fitzgerald was also a MUCH better and more safe prospect than Bryant is and had a connection with Dennis Green.

And Dez Bryant is a speedster? Huh? Compared to my grandmother maybe. That tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

The Cards were one play away from winning it last year and Boldin was not a first rounder much less a top 10 pick.

...my point exactly.

I agree with you that we shouldn't draft dez bryant in the first round but saying that the cards likely will never win a super bowl doesn't make any sense for one and it has nothing to do with your argument because again boldin was not a first rounder.

Bryant Johnson was. My argument wasn't based only on 2 top 10 pick WRs...it was that teams who bypassed other needs to address the WR position early didn't improve that much.

It's simply a proven fact that WR, especially rookie receiver is rarely a high impact position.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

And what am I looking at? A team that hasn't won a superbowl and likely never will.

Receivers don't win you championships. It's lunacy to draft another top 10 receiver when we have so many other holes which are much more pressing. Josh Morgan is a very capable #2 guy and we can draft a quick slot guy later in the draft.

Larry Fitzgerald was also a MUCH better and more safe prospect than Bryant is and had a connection with Dennis Green.

And Dez Bryant is a speedster? Huh? Compared to my grandmother maybe. That tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

The Cards were one play away from winning it last year and Boldin was not a first rounder much less a top 10 pick.

...my point exactly.

I agree with you that we shouldn't draft dez bryant in the first round but saying that the cards likely will never win a super bowl doesn't make any sense for one and it has nothing to do with your argument because again boldin was not a first rounder.

Bryant Johnson was. My argument wasn't based only on 2 top 10 pick WRs...it was that teams who bypassed other needs to address the WR position early didn't improve that much.

It's simply a proven fact that WR, especially rookie receiver is rarely a high impact position.

Either way the Cards were still one play away from winning the super bowl last year and right now look ready to make another run at it. They are clearly better than us and are not a good example of what not to do. But then again dez bryant would not be enough to push us to their level which is what we are supposed to be trying to achieve. Now if we can win on monday night that will at least give me hope that we are primed to re-take the division next year.

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by gilwankel:

Originally posted by genus49:

And what am I looking at? A team that hasn't won a superbowl and likely never will.

Receivers don't win you championships. It's lunacy to draft another top 10 receiver when we have so many other holes which are much more pressing. Josh Morgan is a very capable #2 guy and we can draft a quick slot guy later in the draft.

Larry Fitzgerald was also a MUCH better and more safe prospect than Bryant is and had a connection with Dennis Green.

And Dez Bryant is a speedster? Huh? Compared to my grandmother maybe. That tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

The Cards were one play away from winning it last year and Boldin was not a first rounder much less a top 10 pick.

...my point exactly.

I agree with you that we shouldn't draft dez bryant in the first round but saying that the cards likely will never win a super bowl doesn't make any sense for one and it has nothing to do with your argument because again boldin was not a first rounder.

Bryant Johnson was. My argument wasn't based only on 2 top 10 pick WRs...it was that teams who bypassed other needs to address the WR position early didn't improve that much.

It's simply a proven fact that WR, especially rookie receiver is rarely a high impact position.

Either way the Cards were still one play away from winning the super bowl last year and right now look ready to make another run at it. They are clearly better than us and are not a good example of what not to do. But then again dez bryant would not be enough to push us to their level which is what we are supposed to be trying to achieve. Now if we can win on monday night that will at least give me hope that we are primed to re-take the division next year.

I maintain what I said...they got hot last year at just the right time but if you look at them as a team they are VERY inconsistent. They lost to us, Carolina and Tennessee...not exactly really tough teams and then last week beat Minnesota.

Hell last year they won the division with a 9-7 record. Not the most impressive display. Also it took them a good 4 years before they made the playoffs after drafting Fitz. Clearly he played a big part on the team but it's not like they drafted him and suddenly their powerhouse offense brought them into the playoffs.

Also it needs to be pointed out that Larry Fitzgerald was a much safer and more sure thing pick than Bryant. He also didn't have any questions about him. We already went through an issue with one of Deion's boys with Crabs. Something to think about.

You make some valid points but at the end of the day they are still the best team in our division. Is that just because they drafted Larry Fitz, no way. That was an easy pick for them, it was the calais campbell/alan branch type picks that have been the hard ones that have been the difference. I like our WR corps though and think an entire offseason and TC with Alex Smith at QB and Crabtree, Morgan, and Hill/Jones set at X,Y, and Z will pay more dividends then drafting Dez would.

I'd take him rd 2

I just don't see Bryant as an elite WR in the NFL. I think a speedy WR (preferably a KR also) would serve us better. Jacoby Jones is the guy I want us to draft.

Originally posted by strickac:
I just don't see Bryant as an elite WR in the NFL. I think a speedy WR (preferably a KR also) would serve us better. Jacoby Jones is the guy I want us to draft.

I don't think he's even draft eligible and I think you mean Julio Jones. That and I think Bryant will be a good receiver but not great. But I agree we need a speed/return guy type of receiver.

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by genus49:
How about...NO!

See Detroit Lions for reasons why not.

Myth: the lions' mistake was taking too many great recievers with top 10 picks
Fact: the lions' mistake was taking BAD players with top 10 picks (many of which happened to be recievers)

Thank you.

The Lions drafted busts. Our aim is to draft not-busts. I don't think Bryant is going to be a bust, so I would gladly take him.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by strickac:
I just don't see Bryant as an elite WR in the NFL. I think a speedy WR (preferably a KR also) would serve us better. Jacoby Jones is the guy I want us to draft.

I don't think he's even draft eligible and I think you mean Julio Jones. That and I think Bryant will be a good receiver but not great. But I agree we need a speed/return guy type of receiver.

Sorry, I meant Jacoby Ford. He's probably the fastest player coming out this year. He'll be right around a 4.30 flat. I'm not big on any of the top WRs in this class. Ford might last until the 3rd. If so, he'd give us a legit deep threat and a reliable returner.

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by strickac:
I just don't see Bryant as an elite WR in the NFL. I think a speedy WR (preferably a KR also) would serve us better. Jacoby Jones is the guy I want us to draft.

I don't think he's even draft eligible and I think you mean Julio Jones. That and I think Bryant will be a good receiver but not great. But I agree we need a speed/return guy type of receiver.

Sorry, I meant Jacoby Ford. He's probably the fastest player coming out this year. He'll be right around a 4.30 flat. I'm not big on any of the top WRs in this class. Ford might last until the 3rd. If so, he'd give us a legit deep threat and a reliable returner.

Ford will probably go in the 2nd due to his clocked speed, but I love the idea of getting him.

If we're going to continue with the spread I think we're better off taking a weapon. Whether it's a receiver or Spiller. See the Colts. James, Wayne, Clark, Brown, Addai, Gonzalez. You want to pass the ball in Shotgun on a 3-1 ratio you're not throwing the ball to Trent Williams. It's easier to protect out of Shotgun and it's easier to find lineman that fit that type of system.

If we want to go back to pounding balanced offense then yeah take Williams and Iupuiti and get that pounding line that the Saints have. That might mean we have to go a less Shotgun more play action offense though.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If we're going to continue with the spread I think we're better off taking a weapon. Whether it's a receiver or Spiller. See the Colts. James, Wayne, Clark, Brown, Addai, Gonzalez. You want to pass the ball in Shotgun on a 3-1 ratio you're not throwing the ball to Trent Williams. It's easier to protect out of Shotgun and it's easier to find lineman that fit that type of system.

If we want to go back to pounding balanced offense then yeah take Williams and Iupuiti and get that pounding line that the Saints have. That might mean we have to go a less Shotgun more play action offense though.

I hope we stick with the spread offense because we seem closer to having the personnel. Plus, it's just more exciting than our dull rushing attack. I really hope that we don't need to go overboard with selecting Oline early.

I hope we add some weaspons also. Peyton is getting the job done with Garcon (6th Rd) and Collie (4th Rd). Neither guys were highly touted coming out of college, but they both were extremely productive. Bryant is good prospect, but I think we can find someone later in the draft that could have a similar impact in our system.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by genus49:
How about...NO!

See Detroit Lions for reasons why not.

Myth: the lions' mistake was taking too many great recievers with top 10 picks
Fact: the lions' mistake was taking BAD players with top 10 picks (many of which happened to be recievers)

Thank you.

The Lions drafted busts. Our aim is to draft not-busts. I don't think Bryant is going to be a bust, so I would gladly take him.

Well if you don't think he'll be a bust it must make it true ;)

I'm fairly certain when Detroit was drafting their receivers they didn't expect them to be busts.

Hindsight is also 20/20. But fact of the matter was they kept using top 10 draft choices on receivers and by passing other positions that they really needed help in.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by genus49:
How about...NO!

See Detroit Lions for reasons why not.

Myth: the lions' mistake was taking too many great recievers with top 10 picks
Fact: the lions' mistake was taking BAD players with top 10 picks (many of which happened to be recievers)

Thank you.

The Lions drafted busts. Our aim is to draft not-busts. I don't think Bryant is going to be a bust, so I would gladly take him.

Well if you don't think he'll be a bust it must make it true ;)

I'm fairly certain when Detroit was drafting their receivers they didn't expect them to be busts.

Hindsight is also 20/20. But fact of the matter was they kept using top 10 draft choices on receivers and by passing other positions that they really needed help in.

The only real surprise on who was a bust was Charles Rogers. Mike Williams was doomed from the start with his history and lazy work ethic. Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson (especially) turned out to be pretty good.

I had no problem with the Calvin Johnson pick. The guy was a rare breed of stud and a sure thing.

Charles Rogers' problem wasn't actually playing bad it was injuries. But receiver is one position that rarely starts hot in the NFL. Most guys actually break out after their 2nd year so then drafting a receiver in the top 10 in 3 straight years was lunacy.

Hell when they took Williams Charles Rogers was coming back healthy into his 3rd year...they had a ton of other holes they could've addressed instead of taking a guy who was out of football for one year.

Just for sh*ts and giggles - the next 2 players after Williams were Demarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman.