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Analyzing the first round 1996-2006 (56% of the draft picks were busts)

Originally posted by Ether:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by Ether:
Only an absolute hater would call Michael Vick a bust. He's not the greatest Quarterback since Joe Montana, but what he did with his legs and the mismatches he created was incredible. He ranks 3rd in QB rushing yards, and has several rushing records pertaining to the QB position, and has done it in only 6 years. How do you break a meaningful record and still be a bust?

Michael Vick was the most overrated quarterback in the league for several years.


Career passer rating of 75.7.
Career completion percentage of 53.8%.
71 touchdowns. 79 turnovers (INT+fumbles).
$100 million contract.
18 months in prison for dogfighting
The #1 overall pick in 2001, traded for Ladainian Tomlinson
Only won one meaningful game


I'm sorry, but how is Michael Vick NOT a bust?

I understand that as a Passer, he is not great. But he was not expected to be an efficient passer, everyone knew he had a big arm but not great accuracy. He did his job as a Quarterback considering his surroundings. BTW why did you decide to compare 71 Passing Touchdowns to 79 total turnovers? If you are willing to take fumbles into account, why not take into account his 21 rushing touchdowns?

Also, to add onto his Passing numbers, he has almost 4000 rush yards, as a Quarterback.

In 6 years, Michael Vick had 11,500 Yards Passing. 71 Touchdowns, 52 INT. 53.8%. 3800 yards Rushing (including a 1000 yard rushing season, and 1 970 yard season), 21 Touchdowns. 19 fumbles.

In ~2 years, Young had 5000 Yards passing, 22 touchdowns, 32 INT, 57.3%. 974 Yards Rushing, 10 Touchdowns, 24 Fumbles.

I consider Vince Young a bust because he couldn't perform as a Passer and a Runner at the same time. Michael Vick, while not incredibly efficient, at least had a positive TD/INT ratio, and impacted the game big time as a Runner. Not to mention that he packed seats and was #1 in Jersey sales for his entire career. IMHO, while he didn't "revolutionize" the QB position as he was supposed to, he added a different dimension that no one else has been able to replicate since he's been gone.

It also needs to be said that he won two playoff games in Atlanta, and took them to the NFC Championship.

The information you stated about Vick cannot be argued. It's one thing to say that he isn't a good passer. But anyone saying that he is a bust is speaking out of pure emotion.
Originally posted by crzy:
Quarterbacks: 17 busts, 27 total

Busts

Jim Druckenmiller
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
Michael Vick
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinart

Not busts
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper
Chad Pennington
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler


63% bust rate


I'll post the rest soon.

How is Vick, a Pro Bowl QB, a bust?
Agreed with Smith, Campbell, Young and Leinart.

You have to take Vick off that list though.

-9fA
We need a definition of a bust. As a term it is wildly misaplied.

I don't know the answer, but it needs to include:

high expectations: round 1 or 2 or a highly touted FA. I suppose FAs can still turn into busts?

Level of failure: this is where I think most of the mistakes occur. Surely a bust is more than just a disappointment? Andre Carter has been described as a bust. He didn't live up to expectations and was a disappointment, but he is having a reasonable career. Had he been a 4th round pick there would be no issues. But Reggie McGrew, as a contrast, was a total bust.

I can't see how Vick can be included. Like him or loath him, he has done enough to avoid that. Someone mentioned his team had always fallen short of expectations. I don't think you can include that, it is a team sport.

And time. We never give our players enough time. Players used to get a couple of years quite often before you saw much of them, particularly qb's and OL. Now iF they aren't starting and in the Pro Bowl voting in their first season they have bust. A rb can be called after his first season quite often, other positions take much longer.

Just a few random thoughts.
Originally posted by Ether:
Only an absolute hater would call Michael Vick a bust. He's not the greatest Quarterback since Joe Montana, but what he did with his legs and the mismatches he created was incredible. He ranks 3rd in QB rushing yards, and has several rushing records pertaining to the QB position, and has done it in only 6 years. How do you break a meaningful record and still be a bust?

Because a QB is supposed to make plays with his ARM not his legs.
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Originally posted by Ether:
Only an absolute hater would call Michael Vick a bust. He's not the greatest Quarterback since Joe Montana, but what he did with his legs and the mismatches he created was incredible. He ranks 3rd in QB rushing yards, and has several rushing records pertaining to the QB position, and has done it in only 6 years. How do you break a meaningful record and still be a bust?

Because a QB is supposed to make plays with his ARM not his legs.

Don't agree. He is supposed to make plays full stop

See, to a greater or least extent, Tarkenton, Young and Cunningham. You do what you havecto do to get the job done
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,280
Michael Vick was an overglorified Kordell Stewart who won one meaningful playoff game and made Pro-Bowls based primarily on his popularity. He was massively overhyped and failed to deliver on expectations, signed a massive contract and ended up going to prison.

He is a bust.
Originally posted by crzy:
Michael Vick was an overglorified Kordell Stewart who won one meaningful playoff game and made Pro-Bowls based primarily on his popularity. He was massively overhyped and failed to deliver on expectations, signed a massive contract and ended up going to prison.

He is a bust.

except he was damn scary for defenses to account for. Still don't see the bust.
Originally posted by crzy:
Michael Vick was an overglorified Kordell Stewart who won one meaningful playoff game and made Pro-Bowls based primarily on his popularity. He was massively overhyped and failed to deliver on expectations, signed a massive contract and ended up going to prison.

He is a bust.

When he played he was better than half of the other QBs playing. He is no P. Manning, but calling him a bust is a little extreme.
Originally posted by crzy:
Michael Vick was an overglorified Kordell Stewart who won one meaningful playoff game and made Pro-Bowls based primarily on his popularity. He was massively overhyped and failed to deliver on expectations, signed a massive contract and ended up going to prison.

He is a bust.

QFT.
Which is why I always say, in this field....there is no such thing as an expert. Plenty of self flattery, but no real experts.

If I were an NFL Owner I would have the smallest budget of all the teams dedicated to scouting and drafting.

Just buy a dart board and develop your draft strategy the night before

Good work CRZY

[ Edited by danimal on Oct 2, 2009 at 16:34:52 ]