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Lott-esque Lader in college

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

willis gives speeches before the game, half time, he motivates them dude. he leads by example, just because he doesnt change plays doesnt mean hes not a leader. how many times have u seen Shaun Hill audible since hes such a great leader? the players do what they are aloud to do. Lewis has the freedom to do as he pleases because the ravens are stacked everywhere on defense and can make up for any falws in game planning, we dont have as much proven talent yet so we dont have the liberty to change plays, especially under a coach like nolan who wanted everything his way. do u think nolan would give a player authority to change plays? he was the most stubborn coach ive seen for a long time

Do I think Nolan would allow a MLB to call plays? He sure had no problem with it in Baltimore when he had a Lewis as his defnesive QB. As for Willis's speeches, I'm not sure where that information is coming from. Not saying its not true, but I've never had any idication of that. I've seen a few Youtube videos where he has short outbursts in the huddle, but for the most part every player does this. The reports out of the niners and from guys like Maiocco is that Willis just doesn't have the personality to lead. McKillop on the other hand may have more of a leadership role, even though he won't ever be half the player Willis is. The reason Hill hasn't called audibles is because Martz's system didn't have audibles. I guarantee you that you will see many more this year. Hill's leadership is all about how his players respond to him. Have you ever seen the interaction between him and his offensive lineman? Can you tell me how Hill is not a leader?
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

willis gives speeches before the game, half time, he motivates them dude. he leads by example, just because he doesnt change plays doesnt mean hes not a leader. how many times have u seen Shaun Hill audible since hes such a great leader? the players do what they are aloud to do. Lewis has the freedom to do as he pleases because the ravens are stacked everywhere on defense and can make up for any falws in game planning, we dont have as much proven talent yet so we dont have the liberty to change plays, especially under a coach like nolan who wanted everything his way. do u think nolan would give a player authority to change plays? he was the most stubborn coach ive seen for a long time

Do I think Nolan would allow a MLB to call plays? He sure had no problem with it in Baltimore when he had a Lewis as his defnesive QB. As for Willis's speeches, I'm not sure where that information is coming from. Not saying its not true, but I've never had any idication of that. I've seen a few Youtube videos where he has short outbursts in the huddle, but for the most part every player does this. The reports out of the niners and from guys like Maiocco is that Willis just doesn't have the personality to lead. McKillop on the other hand may have more of a leadership role, even though he won't ever be half the player Willis is. The reason Hill hasn't called audibles is because Martz's system didn't have audibles. I guarantee you that you will see many more this year. Hill's leadership is all about how his players respond to him. Have you ever seen the interaction between him and his offensive lineman? Can you tell me how Hill is not a leader?

nolan was a DC in Baltimore, not the power hungry head coach version that we had in San Francisco. the philosophy in baltimore hasnt changed for a long time, before and after nolan. thats what i was going off of on Willis speaches, ive seen that a few times. that still fires the guys up. the team looks up to him. A leader is someone who motivates others, Willis' play motivates others because he plays so hard. same goes for Jerry Rice, Jerry wasnt a very vocal guy, but i gaurantee u anyone on those teams thought of him as a leader. Hill may have leadership ability, but leaders dont have to worry for their jobs every year. He does chew out his linemen tho, ill give u that. hes a good motivator but i wouldnt call him a leader unless he was without a doubt the starting QB for this team. because a leader on the bench is just a cheerleader
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

The Best Player on the team is Andy Lee!. An Amazing Leg and against Stick Wins! Andy Lee and Chuck Norris have never fought, but it be a TKO to Norris Nuts in a second!
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

The Best Player on the team is Andy Lee!. An Amazing Leg and against Stick Wins! Andy Lee and Chuck Norris have never fought, but it be a TKO to Norris Nuts in a second!

until patrick willis dislodges andy lee's leg from what used to be chuck norris' nuts, breaks it off and uses it for a tooth pick. Willis wins. Fatality
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

willis gives speeches before the game, half time, he motivates them dude. he leads by example, just because he doesnt change plays doesnt mean hes not a leader. how many times have u seen Shaun Hill audible since hes such a great leader? the players do what they are aloud to do. Lewis has the freedom to do as he pleases because the ravens are stacked everywhere on defense and can make up for any falws in game planning, we dont have as much proven talent yet so we dont have the liberty to change plays, especially under a coach like nolan who wanted everything his way. do u think nolan would give a player authority to change plays? he was the most stubborn coach ive seen for a long time

Do I think Nolan would allow a MLB to call plays? He sure had no problem with it in Baltimore when he had a Lewis as his defnesive QB. As for Willis's speeches, I'm not sure where that information is coming from. Not saying its not true, but I've never had any idication of that. I've seen a few Youtube videos where he has short outbursts in the huddle, but for the most part every player does this. The reports out of the niners and from guys like Maiocco is that Willis just doesn't have the personality to lead. McKillop on the other hand may have more of a leadership role, even though he won't ever be half the player Willis is. The reason Hill hasn't called audibles is because Martz's system didn't have audibles. I guarantee you that you will see many more this year. Hill's leadership is all about how his players respond to him. Have you ever seen the interaction between him and his offensive lineman? Can you tell me how Hill is not a leader?

nolan was a DC in Baltimore, not the power hungry head coach version that we had in San Francisco. the philosophy in baltimore hasnt changed for a long time, before and after nolan. thats what i was going off of on Willis speaches, ive seen that a few times. that still fires the guys up. the team looks up to him. A leader is someone who motivates others, Willis' play motivates others because he plays so hard. same goes for Jerry Rice, Jerry wasnt a very vocal guy, but i gaurantee u anyone on those teams thought of him as a leader. Hill may have leadership ability, but leaders dont have to worry for their jobs every year. He does chew out his linemen tho, ill give u that. hes a good motivator but i wouldnt call him a leader unless he was without a doubt the starting QB for this team. because a leader on the bench is just a cheerleader

I suppose we disagree to some degree about leadership. Or simply disagree on what we're trying to describe. I agree that Patrick Willis is in the role of a leader, but I do not think that he's a natural leader. Forget where he is with the team, or how he is as a football player, but purely as who Patrick Willis is. I don't see a natural leader. Whereas Hill is a leader. Whether on the football field, the bench, or on the coach at home, the guy has something to him that makes players want to play for him, and fans cheer for him despite his modest resume. He's put together certain drives where his leadership is undeniable, and his weak arm or unconventionally ugly throwing motion, which have both put him at risk of being the "cheerleader" rather than the huddle leader, shouldn't take away. That's why I brought up Lott. He is a guy that actually fits both descriptions of "leader." Natural leader and someone who was in position of being a leader. However, what I was particularly referring to was that natural character quality.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Illusion:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
What draft eligible player in college football poseses the type of mentality that led our team in the 80s, via Ronnie Lott? Ouside of our coach and Shaun Hill we don't have truelly great leaders on our team. Sure some guys are alright, but can we say that we have a Dawkins, Lewis, etc, on our defense? Do either Berry or Mays posses that type of personality

there is more than one way to be a leader. Or are you forgetting Bryant Young?

B.Y., Willis, Julian Peterson, Tim McDonald, Ken Norton, Merton Hanks... all of these guys were good leaders, and thats just defense. Just because theyre not loud mouths like Dawkins and Lewis doesnt mean theyre not leaders, Patrick Willis is just as much a leader as ray lewis, he commands our Defense and everyone respects him. he's a leader in the mold of Bryant Young.

a) most of these guys are no longer on the team, so why use them as examples?
B) can you explain how Willis, a guy who couldn't handle wearing the green dot, leads this team as well as Rey Lewis, one of the greatest leaders in NFL history, who actually calls many of the defensive plays, and is listened to by every D-coordinator that walks Baltimore?

well u listed lewis and dawkins and none of them are on our team either. u also list shaun hill. come on now.

how is willis a leader? are u serious? willis is the heart and soul of our defense and you dont think he is considered a leader? was B.Y. not a leader? just because he wasnt a loudmouth a*****e like lewis?

So to the first comment. I said that our team lacks leaders like Dawkins or Lewis, in response you listed guys who were no longer n the team ( Willis being the exception). So my point is that we currently lack leadership. Not At all implying that historically our team did not have leaders.

As for your second point, I'm still not seeing your argument. "Wills s the heart and soap of this team" is a generalization without any backing to it. Is he thebest player on this team? Of course! And it's not even close. However, I still have not heard any argument from you about what type of leadership qualities he exhibits. My argument against him as a leader is that he couldn't call plays in the huddle, couldn't wear the mic, does not change plays, and usually leaves it to Clements or Roman to manage the 11 guys on the field. My arguments for Lewis are endless. Let's start with 1. He, not the DC has most of the say over the chosen play on every snap

willis gives speeches before the game, half time, he motivates them dude. he leads by example, just because he doesnt change plays doesnt mean hes not a leader. how many times have u seen Shaun Hill audible since hes such a great leader? the players do what they are aloud to do. Lewis has the freedom to do as he pleases because the ravens are stacked everywhere on defense and can make up for any falws in game planning, we dont have as much proven talent yet so we dont have the liberty to change plays, especially under a coach like nolan who wanted everything his way. do u think nolan would give a player authority to change plays? he was the most stubborn coach ive seen for a long time

Do I think Nolan would allow a MLB to call plays? He sure had no problem with it in Baltimore when he had a Lewis as his defnesive QB. As for Willis's speeches, I'm not sure where that information is coming from. Not saying its not true, but I've never had any idication of that. I've seen a few Youtube videos where he has short outbursts in the huddle, but for the most part every player does this. The reports out of the niners and from guys like Maiocco is that Willis just doesn't have the personality to lead. McKillop on the other hand may have more of a leadership role, even though he won't ever be half the player Willis is. The reason Hill hasn't called audibles is because Martz's system didn't have audibles. I guarantee you that you will see many more this year. Hill's leadership is all about how his players respond to him. Have you ever seen the interaction between him and his offensive lineman? Can you tell me how Hill is not a leader?

nolan was a DC in Baltimore, not the power hungry head coach version that we had in San Francisco. the philosophy in baltimore hasnt changed for a long time, before and after nolan. thats what i was going off of on Willis speaches, ive seen that a few times. that still fires the guys up. the team looks up to him. A leader is someone who motivates others, Willis' play motivates others because he plays so hard. same goes for Jerry Rice, Jerry wasnt a very vocal guy, but i gaurantee u anyone on those teams thought of him as a leader. Hill may have leadership ability, but leaders dont have to worry for their jobs every year. He does chew out his linemen tho, ill give u that. hes a good motivator but i wouldnt call him a leader unless he was without a doubt the starting QB for this team. because a leader on the bench is just a cheerleader

I suppose we disagree to some degree about leadership. Or simply disagree on what we're trying to describe. I agree that Patrick Willis is in the role of a leader, but I do not think that he's a natural leader. Forget where he is with the team, or how he is as a football player, but purely as who Patrick Willis is. I don't see a natural leader. Whereas Hill is a leader. Whether on the football field, the bench, or on the coach at home, the guy has something to him that makes players want to play for him, and fans cheer for him despite his modest resume. He's put together certain drives where his leadership is undeniable, and his weak arm or unconventionally ugly throwing motion, which have both put him at risk of being the "cheerleader" rather than the huddle leader, shouldn't take away. That's why I brought up Lott. He is a guy that actually fits both descriptions of "leader." Natural leader and someone who was in position of being a leader. However, what I was particularly referring to was that natural character quality.

noted. i think he's more fiery than smith but smith really had no reasons to be fiery, he was getting blamed for everything by his own coaching staff and undermined in front of team mates. i didnt like him holding his head down when we went 3 and out but i think it was an indication of how helpless the organization made him. hopefully this year without nolan and with smiths health he can bounce back and become the man but i understand what your saying about hill. i wish them both luck, dont care who wins as long as we get W's in the Wins column
Eric Berry FS Tennessee

T.J. Ward SS Oregon

Both these guys like to hit from the safety position.