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Niners 2010 Draft Needs

The only thing about vern is he managed to look good in hustler's 2007 offense and i dont feel martz used him right. especially when hill was the qb for 3 or 4 games in 2007, vern had some pretty good games iirc. i would like to see him get some easier opportunities cause he can really run. maddog do you think we have a shot at the playoffs if we get quality qb and fs play like you said?
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,848
I would have thought that the controversy would start with:

"So, in my opinion, it is best to deal Manny for whatever compensation we can pick up."

Then the controversy would heated up with:

"As in the case with Manny, the Niners would be best off dealing Davis to another team before the 2010 draft."

We are a long, long way from the 2010 draft.

I hope, and think, that Lawson, Davis, and Haralson will play beter than you seem to be predicting.
Originally posted by Apples:
I find it frustrating that we've had the same needs for about 3 years, and we've barely addressed them.

Pass rush
NT
FS
OT

Im just happy that WR is still not in the mix.
Originally posted by Apples:
I find it frustrating that we've had the same needs for about 3 years, and we've barely addressed them.

Pass rush
NT
FS
OT

i really believe he is on our team. if its not goldson its taylor. go watch some highlights on the kid. here you go both guys from lsu will make impacts i believe
[ Edited by fan49 on Jul 8, 2009 at 3:53 PM ]
Originally posted by fan49:
Originally posted by Apples:
I find it frustrating that we've had the same needs for about 3 years, and we've barely addressed them.

Pass rush
NT
FS
OT

i really believe he is on our team. if its not goldson its taylor. go watch some highlights on the kid. here you go both guys from lsu will make impacts i believe


I completely agree with you...I do think our starting and future FS is already on the roster. Don't forget Reggie Smith...dude was a player at OU...a bigtime playmaker.

To the original poster...

I like the effort you put into your assessments...well thought out...however...

How in the world do you list 2010 draft needs when we havent even hit training camp for the 2009 season? On top of that we havent even signed all of our 2009 draft picks...LOL...talk about pre-me's

Good post though...
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Even though training camp has not begun for the 2009 season, I wanted to make some long-range predictions of team needs exiting this season, and into the 2010 NFL draft.

Pass rushing OLB- The Niners are going to start Parys Haralson and Manny Lawson at the Will and Sam backer positions in 2009. Unfortunately, neither player is outstanding at rushing the passer, and the Niners will probably, once again, have one of the most anemic pass rushing linebacker tandems of any 3-4 team in the league. Haralson is a nice complimentary rusher, but as the person assigned to be the main guy in attacking the QB, he is in the bottom tier of 3-4 Wills in the NFL. While Haralson did pick up 8 sacks last season, which is a good number statistically, he does not provide consistent pressure against the QB, which is even more important that sacks themselves. Sack totals only tell part of the story. Teams have to game plan for Merriman, Ware, Harrison, and need to be aware of these guys at all times. The same cannot be said for Haralson.

Haralson's potential best move would be to the Sam position next season. Lawson is a terrific athlete, and is squarely in the wrong place and the wrong system. Manny is clearly a 4-3 Tampa 2 backer, and the Niners' system is simply not a good fit. He is best in coverage in the flats, running free around the field, using his speed and athleticism to track down TE's and RB's. He is not best in attacking the line of scrimmage, and taking on blockers. In a perfect world, I would love for the Niners to move to a 4-3 defense (to best utilize both Manny and Patrick), but the team is going to stick with the 3-4 defense. So, in my opinion, it is best to deal Manny for whatever compensation we can pick up.

Left Guard- I think this will be the end of the road for David Baas in 2009. He will surely be the starter this season, but the Niners do not seem bent to extend him beyond 2009. The reason? He is an average guard, at best, and the Niners are not confident he is the long-term answer. While Staley, Heitmann, and Rachal all look to be starters for some time now, the Niners will need an upgrade at left guard. Snyder is not the answer, nor Wragge. The Niners are not going to play Wallace there (too small), and are certainly not going to move Heitmann to guard (he was outstanding at center last season). While RT may need some attention in 2010, the Niners have some players that could emerge as the starter for years down the road (M. Smith, Boone, Bender). The same cannot be said at guard.

Baas is pretty good at straightline blocking, but when asked to move laterally, the wheels begin to fall apart. He is not athletic enough to pull on a regular basis with any form of confidence, and does not react well enough to defensive adjustments. There is no doubt that he is smart, but the Niners have committed to improving the OL the past few seasons. I see the next step taking place at LG.

TE- Here is where the controversy will begin. Argh!!! Every year, I expect Vernon Davis to become a game-changing TE, and every year I am severely disappointed. The desire seems to be there. He has learned to become an outstanding blocker, and seems to work hard at his game in the offseason. The problem is that he doesn't have a feel for the passing game, and I am beginning to be skeptical that it will ever happen. The best TE's in the game have great instincts, and show it very early in their career. They see seams in zone coverage, they know when to sit down, when to come back to the ball, they know how to get a LB to lean off balance to gain an advantage. Davis has none of these skills/abilities/traits. He is an excellent deep target, but the main role of a tight end is to be a solid, reliable, consistently open target for a QB.

The Niners have seemingly upgraded their WR core the last two seasons with Morgan and Crabtree. Both have excellent playmaking ability. The Niners now need a player who can make a real difference in the passing game at TE.

As in the case with Manny, the Niners would be best off dealing Davis to another team before the 2010 draft.

Positions I have left off for 2010:
QB- I think the Niners will find their QB for the next few years during this season. Either Shaun Hill will establish himself as a legitimate starter in this league, or Alex Smith will emerge as a guy who will begin to fulfill the promise everyone expected years ago. I do not see the Niners drafting a QB in the 2010 draft.

NT- The Niners seem more and more intrigued by the possibility of shifting Kentwan Balmer to NT in 2010, and I believe the movement may begin this season. Franklin played really well toward the end of 2008, but may be gone after 2009. Sopoaga is probably good for another year in 2010, but needs improve to keep a starting job down the road. I believe Balmer will get his shot to start at NT in 2010.

FS- The Niners are really excited by Dashon Goldson, and he will get his shot to be the leader of the secondary in 2009. Although I am uncertain he'll be a star, I believe he'll also get another year as the starter in 2010. Beyond that is a crapshoot.

RT- As stated earlier, I believe the Niners are going to find their RT for 2010 on this current roster. It may be M. Smith, Boone, or Jacob Bender. As stated in previous draft forums, most NFL teams are really reluctant to burn a high draftee on a RT. The Niners felt the same way in 2009, and bypassed the position in the draft entirely.

In recap, I expect the Niners to use both first round draft picks in 2010 on impact positions: A combination of a Brandon Lang/George Selvie/Sergio Kindle (we'll have to see how his injuries and potential legal issues stack up) and Jermaine Gresham (someone who knows how to get open on the football field) may be the first rounders, while the team selects guard Sergio Rinder/Thomas Austin in the second round (the Niners have selected guard in the 2nd round three times in the last 6 years...Rachal, Baas, Smiley).

Cheers.



BTW I do agree VERY strongly that regardless of performance by our OLB's this season...that Selvie will almost 99.9% be one of our 1st round picks next season. Provided he continues his progression.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Even though training camp has not begun for the 2009 season, I wanted to make some long-range predictions of team needs exiting this season, and into the 2010 NFL draft.

Pass rushing OLB- The Niners are going to start Parys Haralson and Manny Lawson at the Will and Sam backer positions in 2009. Unfortunately, neither player is outstanding at rushing the passer, and the Niners will probably, once again, have one of the most anemic pass rushing linebacker tandems of any 3-4 team in the league. Haralson is a nice complimentary rusher, but as the person assigned to be the main guy in attacking the QB, he is in the bottom tier of 3-4 Wills in the NFL. While Haralson did pick up 8 sacks last season, which is a good number statistically, he does not provide consistent pressure against the QB, which is even more important that sacks themselves. Sack totals only tell part of the story. Teams have to game plan for Merriman, Ware, Harrison, and need to be aware of these guys at all times. The same cannot be said for Haralson.

Haralson's potential best move would be to the Sam position next season. Lawson is a terrific athlete, and is squarely in the wrong place and the wrong system. Manny is clearly a 4-3 Tampa 2 backer, and the Niners' system is simply not a good fit. He is best in coverage in the flats, running free around the field, using his speed and athleticism to track down TE's and RB's. He is not best in attacking the line of scrimmage, and taking on blockers. In a perfect world, I would love for the Niners to move to a 4-3 defense (to best utilize both Manny and Patrick), but the team is going to stick with the 3-4 defense. So, in my opinion, it is best to deal Manny for whatever compensation we can pick up.

Left Guard- I think this will be the end of the road for David Baas in 2009. He will surely be the starter this season, but the Niners do not seem bent to extend him beyond 2009. The reason? He is an average guard, at best, and the Niners are not confident he is the long-term answer. While Staley, Heitmann, and Rachal all look to be starters for some time now, the Niners will need an upgrade at left guard. Snyder is not the answer, nor Wragge. The Niners are not going to play Wallace there (too small), and are certainly not going to move Heitmann to guard (he was outstanding at center last season). While RT may need some attention in 2010, the Niners have some players that could emerge as the starter for years down the road (M. Smith, Boone, Bender). The same cannot be said at guard.

Baas is pretty good at straightline blocking, but when asked to move laterally, the wheels begin to fall apart. He is not athletic enough to pull on a regular basis with any form of confidence, and does not react well enough to defensive adjustments. There is no doubt that he is smart, but the Niners have committed to improving the OL the past few seasons. I see the next step taking place at LG.

TE- Here is where the controversy will begin. Argh!!! Every year, I expect Vernon Davis to become a game-changing TE, and every year I am severely disappointed. The desire seems to be there. He has learned to become an outstanding blocker, and seems to work hard at his game in the offseason. The problem is that he doesn't have a feel for the passing game, and I am beginning to be skeptical that it will ever happen. The best TE's in the game have great instincts, and show it very early in their career. They see seams in zone coverage, they know when to sit down, when to come back to the ball, they know how to get a LB to lean off balance to gain an advantage. Davis has none of these skills/abilities/traits. He is an excellent deep target, but the main role of a tight end is to be a solid, reliable, consistently open target for a QB.

The Niners have seemingly upgraded their WR core the last two seasons with Morgan and Crabtree. Both have excellent playmaking ability. The Niners now need a player who can make a real difference in the passing game at TE.

As in the case with Manny, the Niners would be best off dealing Davis to another team before the 2010 draft.

Positions I have left off for 2010:
QB- I think the Niners will find their QB for the next few years during this season. Either Shaun Hill will establish himself as a legitimate starter in this league, or Alex Smith will emerge as a guy who will begin to fulfill the promise everyone expected years ago. I do not see the Niners drafting a QB in the 2010 draft.

NT- The Niners seem more and more intrigued by the possibility of shifting Kentwan Balmer to NT in 2010, and I believe the movement may begin this season. Franklin played really well toward the end of 2008, but may be gone after 2009. Sopoaga is probably good for another year in 2010, but needs improve to keep a starting job down the road. I believe Balmer will get his shot to start at NT in 2010.

FS- The Niners are really excited by Dashon Goldson, and he will get his shot to be the leader of the secondary in 2009. Although I am uncertain he'll be a star, I believe he'll also get another year as the starter in 2010. Beyond that is a crapshoot.

RT- As stated earlier, I believe the Niners are going to find their RT for 2010 on this current roster. It may be M. Smith, Boone, or Jacob Bender. As stated in previous draft forums, most NFL teams are really reluctant to burn a high draftee on a RT. The Niners felt the same way in 2009, and bypassed the position in the draft entirely.

In recap, I expect the Niners to use both first round draft picks in 2010 on impact positions: A combination of a Brandon Lang/George Selvie/Sergio Kindle (we'll have to see how his injuries and potential legal issues stack up) and Jermaine Gresham (someone who knows how to get open on the football field) may be the first rounders, while the team selects guard Sergio Rinder/Thomas Austin in the second round (the Niners have selected guard in the 2nd round three times in the last 6 years...Rachal, Baas, Smiley).

Cheers.

MD, few observations. First you said the organization did not draft a RT because they did not see value at the position. I don't believe that's the case. It became pretty apparent that Singletary would have been happy to grab Oher or even A. Smith, however the Al Davis really threw a curve ball and put Sing and Scotty in a position where they couldn't pass up the player they viewed as the BPA (possibly starting from the 1st pick). The second round trade proposal, along with the available RTs was also a no brainer. Not based on the position, but based on the particular situation. In the 3rd I believe picking a RB was non-optional because they viewed that as a key upgrade that was needed. By the 5th round, a real upgrade at RT was not available. Nothing against RTs, but the way the situation unfolded.

Secondly, I don't think we can expect to use our draft picks on certain positions. As always, I'm a BPA supporter. Are any of these pass rushers worth passing up on a guy like Berry? Even if Goldson gets another shot in 2010 at the least, M. Lewis is nothing to write home about.

Just my $.02
a few thoughts of mine since I'm doing nothing today...

- I can see SF looking early for a rush LB, as I don't expect our interior DL to help the outside rush enough. This will leave the rush LBs looking rather average, and leave the F/O unconvinced of their worth.

- I don't think you give Baas enough credit, but still, I don't know that McC will change his stance on paying good money for OGs. So guards may be looked at on the second day of the draft.

- I have more faith in Vernon Davis than you, it seems. From early reports, he is looking more lean and agile, and is working hard. He will likely never justify his draft spot, but I think he will have a decent year and improve on his flaws.

- I also am not expecting real urgency on the WR/QB positions.

- I never really viewed Balmer as having good NT potential, and would love to be wrong about that. He is not terribly stout or efficient with leverage, and I see great struggle for him to hold the POA. He should make a pretty good DE for our scheme though. Franklin impressed with a few plays per game down the stretch, but still sucks more than most want to realize. According to Barrows, SF has been wanting an upgrade over him for a while now, and rightfully so. (link and quote below) Sopoaga would be my only real hope for any current NTs we have, and that's only due to SF going with more of a 1-gap approach.

- I agree with your assessment on FS and even RT.

- I'm a little surprised that you omitted CB as a need. Seems like we should have our starters in Clements and Brown... possibly Bly or Spencer for a lil longer, but no guarantees there by a long shot. I think CB will be looked at in the first 3-4 rounds.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/06/roster-review-i-1.html
Quote:
The team has signalled in the past that it would like to replace Franklin as the starter. With that in mind, the 49ers will give a long looks to Balmer and Sopoaga - both of whom are more physical - at nose tackle this summer.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Jul 13, 2009 at 8:38 AM ]
I'm pretty sure SS is a need as well! Lewis is not getting any younger back there!
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
I'm pretty sure SS is a need as well! Lewis is not getting any younger back there!

i hope we get mays he can b e SS or a FS
Originally posted by Apples:
I find it frustrating that we've had the same needs for about 3 years, and we've barely addressed them.

Pass rush
NT
FS
OT

I believe that either Haralson or Goldson will have a breakout year so take one of those off we really need:

NT
RT
QB
MD has never been a supporter of Manny. If MD believes a guy is drafted too high the player almost never get a break unless the guy is a perennial probowler. This is the same reason that MD despises VD.

MD, we have been on the Zone together for a long time, but this is one of your faults.

Both VD and Manny are tremendous football players. Are they first round talents...probably not and they shouldn't have been taken as high as they were, but they didn't have any control over when they were selected. But here is the rub, they are both in the upper echelon of their positions, although, they are not probowlers.

Manny would excell in an attacking style 3-4 or a 4-3. (I am totally with you on switching to a a 4-3 by the way).

VD is the best Blocking TE in the NFL and it isn't even close unless you are talking about a TE that is really just an OT with a TE number.

VD is perfect for our system. He is not a WC TE at all. He will block for our RB's and be a perfect outlet on screens, dump-offs, and play action passes. He can do all of those well, and HE IS THE BEST TE IN FOOTBALL RUNNING WITH THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So while you articulately express the faults of Manny and VD you totally discount the things they do exceptionally well. My friend, that is not the best way to evaluate a roster.

There is no way in hell that I would get rid of VD or Manny. However, I would not mind drafting a TE and OLB high next year...even in the first round.

That being said, we take the BPA amongst the TE, OLB, S, OT's next year in the first round.
1. Corner
2. OLB
3. NT
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,710
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
qb qb qb qb

+a pass rusher from any position, I think putting pressure on the opponents QB is the most important job of a defense. Even the worst NFL QB will rip a defense to shreds if
allowed too much time to pass.
Well said Maddog I see us approaching the 2010 draft as follows:

NT- A couple interesting 1st rd. guys that could fill that key role of the 3-4

RT- M. Smith is not a long term answer (age) and not sure if the club will pass on a draft deep with talent at tackle.

LG- Good call, this is not commonly brought up. I'd love for us to take another stud guard in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Questionable:

Safety- Either SS or FS, depending on injuries and production.

OLB- Depends on production. I could defiantly see us taking someone in the later rounds to add depth and be a 3rd down/ST guy.

QB- Will Hill or Smith emerge as the answer? What's N. Davis potential?