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if calvin johnson and crabs were in the same draft ...

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,141
I like CJ's size speed combo, but it seemed watching highlights of him last year, he seemed to be too tall. Like it might be hurting him when he trys to make his cuts and stuff. I like my Crabs though. He's a combination Fitzgerald/Boldin with speed.
[ Edited by mayo63 on May 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM ]
Calvin Johnson without a doubt!


CRABTREE WASN'T EVEN THE FIRST WR TAKEN THIS YEAR!!!!
Statements like 1) not even close and 2) CJ by far, are not accurate. Given his injury, we don't have a forty time on Crabtree. And yes franchises do make decisions on 40 times: see the Raiders and DHB. Had Crabtree run a 4.4 forty he would have been the second player taken right behnd Stafford same as CJ. Crabtree was a much more consistent WR in college than Johnson. In the same draft, CJ goes first, but Crabtree would be right behind him with a solid 40.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Statements like 1) not even close and 2) CJ by far, are not accurate. Given his injury, we don't have a forty time on Crabtree. And yes franchises do make decisions on 40 times: see the Raiders and DHB. Had Crabtree run a 4.4 forty he would have been the second player taken right behnd Stafford same as CJ. Crabtree was a much more consistent WR in college than Johnson. In the same draft, CJ goes first, but Crabtree would be right behind him with a solid 40.

CJ is bigger, faster, stronger, and his hands are every bit as good as Crabtree's.

Who cares if Crabtree is the next guy off the board? The point is CJ would be drafted before Crabtree 10 times out of 10, so yes - its CJ by far and its not even close.
Bigger yes, but faster we don't know and no matter what Crabtree was the better college player 10 out of 10 times. Not even close is an inacurrate statement since we don't have a forty time for Crabtree. Sure CJ ran 4.35 at the combine, but with training, Crabtree may have put up a number close to that. Had he put up 4.4 he may have been drafted ahead of CJ based on production in college. CJ was not even close to MC's production.

And BTW, as an aside nothing to do with the question above Fitzgerald is smaller and slower than CJ and he is better than CJ 10 out of 10 times. Same as Rice speed doesn't get it done.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Bigger yes, but faster we don't know and no matter what Crabtree was the better college player 10 out of 10 times. Not even close is an inacurrate statement since we don't have a forty time for Crabtree. Sure CJ ran 4.35 at the combine, but with training, Crabtree may have put up a number close to that. Had he put up 4.4 he may have been drafted ahead of CJ based on production in college. CJ was not even close to MC's production.

And BTW, as an aside nothing to do with the question above Fitzgerald is smaller and slower than CJ and he is better than CJ 10 out of 10 times. Same as Rice speed doesn't get it done.

wow. has it ever occured to people that comparinig CJ production to others is ridiculous?

first. to compare him to crabtree's college production? graham harrel has a chance to make a pro team, and then he plyed in a system that produces big numbers. CJ played with a QB that probably could not have made it on SEC teams, and in a system where the defense could triple team him. and like his catch shown, he was never given a chance for YAC.

just like his pro career has turned out.


then to compare him to fitz;s career? first in those first 2 years, he had it easy with boldin n the other side. johnson had a bad back injury(which he played through) his rookie year, and last year he had noone else on the other team that te D cared about.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Calivn Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Michael Crabtree
Roy Williams

Would this be accurate?

Nah, you can't put Crabtree ahead of a guy who made the probowl in Williams without ever playing a down in the NFL. Fitzgerald has played way way better than CJ and taken his team to the superbowl. AJ is and has been more consistant than CJ in his career. CJ has had one reasonable year. Does he have potential to top the list? Sure but not yet. So for me it's
LF
AJ
CJ
RW
MC



in this instance you can. we are talking about if they came out in the draft together who would have gone 1st.

and i think that is pretty accurate, maybe johnson above fitzgerald, fitz could not get seperation in college.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Bigger yes, but faster we don't know and no matter what Crabtree was the better college player 10 out of 10 times. Not even close is an inacurrate statement since we don't have a forty time for Crabtree. Sure CJ ran 4.35 at the combine, but with training, Crabtree may have put up a number close to that. Had he put up 4.4 he may have been drafted ahead of CJ based on production in college. CJ was not even close to MC's production.

And BTW, as an aside nothing to do with the question above Fitzgerald is smaller and slower than CJ and he is better than CJ 10 out of 10 times. Same as Rice speed doesn't get it done.

Crabtree was more "productive" in college because of the offense he played in, not because he was a better college WR. Crabtree's "production" was questioned this year because he played in that offense and his college QB went undrafted because teams are smart enough to look past the system and grade the player, so no - his "production" would not have pushed him in front of CJ.

And all you have to do is watch them play a game to know who is faster. Crabtree is a great player, but anybody that has watched him play knows he doesn't have elite speed. CJ, on the other hand, showcased his speed frequently in college.

"And BTW", CJ was seen as the best WR prospect to come out in the past ten years (perhaps ever) by virtually everyone that follows the draft. He was also widely considered the best player in the draft the year he came out. When Fitz went to AZ, on the other hand, it was widely said he went that high because of his connection to Denny Green, not because he was the BPA. He turned out to be great, but saying he would have gone in front of CJ only makes sense when you have the benefit of hindsight. CJ was the better prospect by far.
  • WillisWillKilYou
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Not close. Johnson by a mile.

P.S. Can I add that on draft day, I said that if the Raiders drafted Russell, they would live to regret the pick. Johnson was clearly the best prospect in the draft, even a better prospect than A. Peterson, who has been phenomenal.

So, the Raiders could have had a combination of Johnson and Crabtree. Instead, they have Russell and Heyward-Bey.

Way to go, Al Davis. Brilliant!!!!


  • WillisWillKilYou
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by jnew62:


CRABTREE WASN'T EVEN THE FIRST WR TAKEN THIS YEAR!!!!

he was still the best receiver in this years draft
[ Edited by WillisWillKilYou on May 16, 2009 at 10:51 PM ]
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Calivn Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Michael Crabtree
Roy Williams

Would this be accurate?

Nah, you can't put Crabtree ahead of a guy who made the probowl in Williams without ever playing a down in the NFL. Fitzgerald has played way way better than CJ and taken his team to the superbowl. AJ is and has been more consistant than CJ in his career. CJ has had one reasonable year. Does he have potential to top the list? Sure but not yet. So for me it's
LF
AJ
CJ
RW
MC



I'm talking about hype/potential coming out of college not best WR right now.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on May 17, 2009 at 7:03 AM ]
Originally posted by WillisWillKilYou:
Originally posted by jnew62:


CRABTREE WASN'T EVEN THE FIRST WR TAKEN THIS YEAR!!!!

he was still the best receiver in this years draft

Doesn't matter. The question was; Would he have been taken before Calvin Johnson. And the answer is he didn't even go in front of DHB. SO the real question should be weather DHB would have gone over Calvin Johnson. 9 teams passed on Crabtree, for one reason or another. Not just the Raiders. And from past history with top 10 WR's, probably rightfully so. Even Braylon Edwards who has for the most part, been successful, isn't worth a 1st rd. pick. And he was taken #3. Zona can't get a #1 for Boldin. Meanwhile, Peters goes to the Eagles for a #1. Cutler went to the Bears for 2 #1's.
We wouldn't have a shot at Megatron cause the Raiders would've taken him based on his speed. This would've been the only time it actually works out for them.
Originally posted by dhp318:
Calvin Johnson would've been picked over any other receiver, past, present, and future.

Randy Moss coming out of college > Calvin Johnson coming out of college.